Pray for Charlottesville and our country

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Re: Pray for Charlottesville and our country

Postby Haruo » Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:27 am

Jim wrote:I think God is dynamic but that the Bible is static (John warned about messing with it), so I don't see progress in revelation, not even in Revelation,...

I find it implausible that John could or would refer to the Bible as a book in the book we call Revelation, since the Bible as a book didn't exist yet (except maybe in Heaven or in God's imagination or someplace like that). It seems far more plausible to me that he was referring to the book we call Revelation, which even though it is IN the Bible is NOT the Bible.
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Re: Pray for Charlottesville and our country

Postby Jon Estes » Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:15 am

Haruo wrote:
Jim wrote:I think God is dynamic but that the Bible is static (John warned about messing with it), so I don't see progress in revelation, not even in Revelation,...

I find it implausible that John could or would refer to the Bible as a book in the book we call Revelation, since the Bible as a book didn't exist yet (except maybe in Heaven or in God's imagination or someplace like that). It seems far more plausible to me that he was referring to the book we call Revelation, which even though it is IN the Bible is NOT the Bible.


Got confused following all the quotes within the quotes.

I am not sure about your take since he mentioned revelation and Revelation.
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Re: Pray for Charlottesville and our country

Postby Jim » Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:42 am

Haruo wrote:And if biblical slavery was PERMANENT, then what were the Israelites doing running off and not getting sent back or worse? Or were they?


My exact statement: "Slavery, whether right or wrong, was a fact of life in Bible times and so was handled as such and recognized THEN as permanent." No entity was strong enough to send them back especially since God had other plans for them. Later, the Israelites became slaves in Babylon or Assyria or somewhere and God let them stew in their own juices, not to mention during the time of Jesus and those squirrely Romans...so a bit of a Divine puzzle...yes? And, of course, the Israelites conquered and collected their gaggles of slaves, too, and God (if you believe the OT) gave instructions as to their treatment but didn't seem to indicate much about spearing them if they tried to run away.
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Re: Pray for Charlottesville and our country

Postby Jim » Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:51 am

Haruo wrote:
Jim wrote:I think God is dynamic but that the Bible is static (John warned about messing with it), so I don't see progress in revelation, not even in Revelation,...

I find it implausible that John could or would refer to the Bible as a book in the book we call Revelation, since the Bible as a book didn't exist yet (except maybe in Heaven or in God's imagination or someplace like that). It seems far more plausible to me that he was referring to the book we call Revelation, which even though it is IN the Bible is NOT the Bible.


You have heard of the old scriptures, I presume, from which Jesus read and lectured concerning them. In fact, he even quoted them. John could have meant them and considered them as authentic. Actually, did it matter in 90-100 A.D., about the time of Revelation?
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Re: Pray for Charlottesville and our country

Postby Jim » Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:06 am

Haruo wrote:Perhaps it would be well to ask, Jim, do you see yourself, in the biblical sense, as a slave?


Actually, I'm leaning toward Sadducee rather than Pharisee. After all, it's either those or tax collector, and that, while financially great, could be dangerous. More actually, Herod's spot seems now to have been attractive (all that power, hermeneutic and the slashing of throats) but even he had his problems. Biblically, Pilate had a great job I might have liked but I believe his death was required by some Caesar for something or other (I forget), so that had its disadvantages. But the Sads, Phars, Herod, tax collectors and even Jesus were all slaves of the Romans, so I think I'd as soon take a pass on the whole nine yards. I might have waited for the juicy Inquisitions (real power) and converted to Roman Catholicism—if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.
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Re: Pray for Charlottesville and our country

Postby Tim Bonney » Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:48 am

Sandy wrote: Oh, you can whine about how disgusting the alt-right really is, or complain because Dave posted a link to one of their articles which illustrated exactly how evil and antiChristian they are, but all you are doing is stepping around the truth and avoiding reality.


Well said Sandy.
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Re: Pray for Charlottesville and our country

Postby Sandy » Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:53 am

Haruo wrote:
Jim wrote:I think God is dynamic but that the Bible is static (John warned about messing with it), so I don't see progress in revelation, not even in Revelation,...

I find it implausible that John could or would refer to the Bible as a book in the book we call Revelation, since the Bible as a book didn't exist yet (except maybe in Heaven or in God's imagination or someplace like that). It seems far more plausible to me that he was referring to the book we call Revelation, which even though it is IN the Bible is NOT the Bible.


Here's the scripture passage you are referencing.
I testify to everyone who hears the prophetic words of this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book. And if anyone takes away from the words of this prophetic book, God will take away his share of the tree of life and the holy city, written in this book. Revelation 22:18-19 HCSB

Notice that I used the Holman version, so that there can be no question of the accuracy of the text. :wink:

The Greek terminology in this passage is pretty standard. The phrase "This book", bibliou toutou, appears four times. It is given the description "prophetic", propheteias tou, which would read "This book of prophecy," or "this prophetic book" in English. The term "bibliou" simply translates book. John mentions three things found in the book, including sharing in the tree of life, the holy city, and the plagues, written within, that indicate these words apply specifically to the prophecy in the book of Revelation that originated with Christ.
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Re: Pray for Charlottesville and our country

Postby Dave Roberts » Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:56 pm

Jon Estes wrote:
Dave Roberts wrote: I think God is dynamic but that the Bible is static (John warned about messing with it)


Dave,

Would you mind to briefly explain what you mean by dynamic?

I really want to clearly understand what you are wanting to say.


The quote is misattributed in someone else's post, Jon.
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Re: Pray for Charlottesville and our country

Postby Haruo » Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:57 pm

Jim wrote the words misattributed to Dave above.
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