Pray for Charlottesville and our country

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Re: Pray for Charlottesville and our country

Postby Dave Roberts » Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:36 pm

William, actually my heart hurts for the young man who drove his car into the crowd. His life is ruined. If he is convicted, he will probably never be released from prison. If he is not found guilty, he will never find a job or much support. If convicted both of second degree murder and of up to 19 counts of attempted murder, he will probably wish he could have gotten the death penalty because he will be living in a prison system in which a majority of the inmates are African-American as are many of the guards. His life will be spent in solitary for his own protection. His life also is a tragedy.
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Re: Pray for Charlottesville and our country

Postby Sandy » Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:44 pm

JE Pettibone wrote:Truth is Trump won and they don't want him to have any success no matter how negatively their opposition affects the position of our country world wide.


You know, Ed, Trump is doing a great job at avoiding success, and at negatively affecting the position of our country world wide with his own inept, incompetence and stupidity. That sounds exactly like what was said about the conservative obstructionists during the Obama administration. He won, twice, setting a record for the most votes received by any candidate in the history of democratic elections, and they lied, and did everything they could to keep him from having success no mater how negatively their opposition affected the position of our country world wide. Your statement is sheer hypocrisy.

You, William and Jim are doing a lot of diverting and distracting, and avoiding the issue. Trying to draw apples to oranges comparisons between your own interpretations of actions of those on the left, and throwing out theoretical blame toward anything to the left avoids having to acknowledge the real issue. Oh, you can whine about how disgusting the alt-right really is, or complain because Dave posted a link to one of their articles which illustrated exactly how evil and antiChristian they are, but all you are doing is stepping around the truth and avoiding reality.
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Re: Pray for Charlottesville and our country

Postby KeithE » Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:53 pm

William Thornton wrote:
KeithE wrote:
William Thornton wrote:Yeah oppose the alt-right by linking one of their hate rags. Brilliant.

Several case studies at work in this short thread.

Well I see that you are now defending Alt-Rights just like you have been defending Trump vs his critics (although of course you say you didn’t vote for him). No facts, no appeal to conscience. Brilliant.

What “case studies” do you have in mind?


I'd call you an idiot except for the fact that I know you are very intelligent individual who simply chooses to ignore plain statements at times. See if you can set aside your arrogance for a moment and understand why I say this. But have a nice cruise and pay close attention in Havana.

Since I didn't explain fully, presuming that anyone in tune would get the point, here's a redo:

Dave linked a racist, supremacist hate rag. That was not a brilliant way to oppose the same. He can either delete the link or, if he thinks the few folks here need further education on these things, leave it up. I think it unwise to give exposure to this crap.

Sandy offers a case study in lib pontificating, and I say that affectionately not harshly, as well as muddying up a clear example of authentic, supremacist hate.

I took your "Yeah........... Brilliant." as sarcastic. As such you were belittling Dave's link as ineffectual in showing the evil of the Alt - Right. As such you were supporting the Alt-Right just as you have often done when Trump is criticized

Sorry if I misunderstood. And as always I wish you would back up the attitudes/opinions you so often share(as you did kinda in this case eventually). It would perhaps clear up what you are trying to get across which I now perhaps think was your disgust with such slanderous stuff in Dave's link to the dailystormer story.
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Re: Pray for Charlottesville and our country

Postby KeithE » Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:40 pm

Jim wrote:Maybe your mindset needs a bit of changing. Had you thought of that? Maybe the A-Rs think you're a wingnut or at least an elitist UPPER CLASS (self-admitted millionaire...remember?) success story going somewhere to happen and far superior to all the deplorables. What a crock![/quote

For instance, when there's a police-related shooting noted in the news, your first thought (my guess) has to do with the ethnicity of the subjects.

Not true.

You call me an elitist upper class. I responded and you considered it bragging. I cannot deny my incomes ; how else can I dissuade from such negative views of me.
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Re: Pray for Charlottesville and our country

Postby Sandy » Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:05 pm

Trump made it pretty clear today where he stands, and that's with the white supremacists and neo-nazis of the alt-right He leaves no doubt about his support of them, and his encouragement of them. Their leadership has picked up on his support, and thanked him for it. David Duke was quite complimentary. I can't believe the man is so absolutely and completely ignorant not to know the difference between George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and Robert E. Lee. Is he really that ignorant and stupid, or is that just part of the rhetoric and propaganda used as a diversionary tactic? And does he think people are so stupid, ignorant, and blind in their loyalty to him that they couldn't see there were no "good people just protesting the removal of a statue of Robert E. Lee"? They marched through the town with torches, carrying baseball bats, instigating violence along the way, chanting anti-Semitic and Nazi slogans. If you think "both sides were to blame for the violence," you are blind to reality, and you are an idiot. And that makes Donald Trump an idiot.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ ... spartandhp
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Re: Pray for Charlottesville and our country

Postby Jim » Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:34 am

KeithE wrote:
Jim wrote:Maybe your mindset needs a bit of changing. Had you thought of that? Maybe the A-Rs think you're a wingnut or at least an elitist UPPER CLASS (self-admitted millionaire...remember?) success story going somewhere to happen and far superior to all the deplorables. What a crock![/quote

For instance, when there's a police-related shooting noted in the news, your first thought (my guess) has to do with the ethnicity of the subjects.

Not true.

You call me an elitist upper class. I responded and you considered it bragging. I cannot deny my incomes ; how else can I dissuade from such negative views of me.


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Re: Pray for Charlottesville and our country

Postby Jim » Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:50 am

Dave Roberts wrote:William, actually my heart hurts for the young man who drove his car into the crowd. His life is ruined. If he is convicted, he will probably never be released from prison. If he is not found guilty, he will never find a job or much support. If convicted both of second degree murder and of up to 19 counts of attempted murder, he will probably wish he could have gotten the death penalty because he will be living in a prison system in which a majority of the inmates are African-American as are many of the guards. His life will be spent in solitary for his own protection. His life also is a tragedy.


As usual, the mod-lib mind turns every issue into one of racism—black guards and majority black prisoners, a double-header...a real slap ethnically. Far from being a racial issue, Charlottesville is a cultural issue relative to whites only. The blacks have no dog in this fight and probably are very disappointed. The mod-lib whites are trying to make it a racial issue because they have no desire to see either the common sense in Trump's remarks yesterday or are trying harder than ever to somehow nullify the election. The media is in a feeding frenzy (trying hard to hound the prez out of office) but only the most gullible will see the carnage as racism. People in the A-R group (Grandmother Clinton's deplorables) have watched as the nation has rapidly accelerated its descent into oblivion, with political correctness as the facilitator.

In the vanguard of this descent are the hierarchically-governed denominations and looney-tune preachers, who have swallowed the P-C line or fear losing their jobs if they stand on biblical principles. Ministers with principles don't marry mano a mano, but if the ruling gang in a Louisville or Nashville threaten their livelihood they have little choice in the matter. The perfect example of standing on principle and paying the price is Flick, who lost it all when he dared to buck the establishment, even though the SBC believer-priest standard meant he was right.
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Re: Pray for Charlottesville and our country

Postby Haruo » Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:24 pm

Granted the tendency of many on or near the left to want to recast everything in racial/racist terms, the notion that Nazism, neo or otherwise, has no racial component or that if there is one it is not fairly central to the ideology, is just ludicrous, Jim.
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Re: Pray for Charlottesville and our country

Postby Sandy » Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:55 pm

Jim wrote:In the vanguard of this descent are the hierarchically-governed denominations and looney-tune preachers, who have swallowed the P-C line or fear losing their jobs if they stand on biblical principles.


I think it is time to call a spade a spade. There are no Biblical principles involved in white supremacy, any form of racism, bigotry or in any Neo-Nazi, Alt-right, Ku Klux Klan, and certainly not in anything that was said or done by the white supremacist marchers in Charlottesville last week, including their deliberate and intentional inciting of violence, and the murder that one of them committed, along with the hate-filled rhetoric of their leader afterward, including threats to kill more people before they're done.

You said it, Jim. So put your "biblical principles" out on the table here. Virtually every post you've made on this subject is sympathetic to the white supremacists, and opposed to anything or anyone who takes a side against them. So I'm just going to put this out here in as clear a manner as I can. Do you believe that the Bible teaches racial equality?
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Re: Pray for Charlottesville and our country

Postby Sandy » Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:56 pm

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Re: Pray for Charlottesville and our country

Postby Jim » Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:57 pm

Sandy wrote:
You said it, Jim. So put your "biblical principles" out on the table here. Virtually every post you've made on this subject is sympathetic to the white supremacists, and opposed to anything or anyone who takes a side against them. So I'm just going to put this out here in as clear a manner as I can. Do you believe that the Bible teaches racial equality?


Short answer: Onesimus sent back to Philemon by Paul as a slave to remain a slave. Short answer: Jesus, a slave, telling followers to render the tax to Caesar in their slavery and obey the authorities. Long answer: all the provisions made for SLAVES in the OT. Anyone with just a cursory knowledge of history understands that from the beginning the engines driving all commerce—and thus existence—were slaves in one form or another right into the 20th century. Saudi Arabia, the last nation to do so, finally officially ordered the end to slavery in the 1960s, though it still exists all over the world, especially among the Muslims. Slavery was not an invention of the USA. It was introduced by the British nearly 200 years before Americans ended its import and nearly 250 or so years before it was ended in 1865. Slavery, whether right or wrong, was a fact of life in Bible times and so was handled as such and recognized THEN as permanent. So, take your bleeding heart somewhere else.
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Re: Pray for Charlottesville and our country

Postby Dave Roberts » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:13 pm

Jim wrote:
Sandy wrote:
You said it, Jim. So put your "biblical principles" out on the table here. Virtually every post you've made on this subject is sympathetic to the white supremacists, and opposed to anything or anyone who takes a side against them. So I'm just going to put this out here in as clear a manner as I can. Do you believe that the Bible teaches racial equality?


Short answer: Onesimus sent back to Philemon by Paul as a slave to remain a slave. Short answer: Jesus, a slave, telling followers to render the tax to Caesar in their slavery and obey the authorities. Long answer: all the provisions made for SLAVES in the OT. Anyone with just a cursory knowledge of history understands that from the beginning the engines driving all commerce—and thus existence—were slaves in one form or another right into the 20th century. Saudi Arabia, the last nation to do so, finally officially ordered the end to slavery in the 1960s, though it still exists all over the world, especially among the Muslims. Slavery was not an invention of the USA. It was introduced by the British nearly 200 years before Americans ended its import and nearly 250 or so years before it was ended in 1865. Slavery, whether right or wrong, was a fact of life in Bible times and so was handled as such and recognized THEN as permanent. So, take your bleeding heart somewhere else.


So, Jim, you see all the Bible as a level playing field with no progess in revelation. In other words, Jesus doesn't change anything. Glad to see your clarity.
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Re: Pray for Charlottesville and our country

Postby Sandy » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:22 pm

Jim wrote:
Sandy wrote:
You said it, Jim. So put your "biblical principles" out on the table here. Virtually every post you've made on this subject is sympathetic to the white supremacists, and opposed to anything or anyone who takes a side against them. So I'm just going to put this out here in as clear a manner as I can. Do you believe that the Bible teaches racial equality?


Short answer: Onesimus sent back to Philemon by Paul as a slave to remain a slave. Short answer: Jesus, a slave, telling followers to render the tax to Caesar in their slavery and obey the authorities. Long answer: all the provisions made for SLAVES in the OT. Anyone with just a cursory knowledge of history understands that from the beginning the engines driving all commerce—and thus existence—were slaves in one form or another right into the 20th century. Saudi Arabia, the last nation to do so, finally officially ordered the end to slavery in the 1960s, though it still exists all over the world, especially among the Muslims. Slavery was not an invention of the USA. It was introduced by the British nearly 200 years before Americans ended its import and nearly 250 or so years before it was ended in 1865. Slavery, whether right or wrong, was a fact of life in Bible times and so was handled as such and recognized THEN as permanent. So, take your bleeding heart somewhere else.


I didn't ask you about slavery, or whether the Bible teaches that it is right or wrong. I asked if you believe the Bible teaches racial equality. None of your verbal diarrhea here either answers that question, nor any other from what I can see.
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Re: Pray for Charlottesville and our country

Postby Haruo » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:24 pm

Perhaps it would be well to ask, Jim, do you see yourself, in the biblical sense, as a slave?
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Re: Pray for Charlottesville and our country

Postby Haruo » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:26 pm

And if biblical slavery was PERMANENT, then what were the Israelites doing running off and not getting sent back or worse? Or were they?
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Re: Pray for Charlottesville and our country

Postby Haruo » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:28 pm

And was Onesimus sent back against his will or was he sent back as a willing coworker?
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Re: Pray for Charlottesville and our country

Postby Haruo » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:32 pm

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Re: Pray for Charlottesville and our country

Postby JE Pettibone » Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:08 pm

Dave Roberts wrote:
Jim wrote:
Sandy wrote:
You said it, Jim. So put your "biblical principles" out on the table here. Virtually every post you've made on this subject is sympathetic to the white supremacists, and opposed to anything or anyone who takes a side against them. So I'm just going to put this out here in as clear a manner as I can. Do you believe that the Bible teaches racial equality?


Short answer: Onesimus sent back to Philemon by Paul as a slave to remain a slave. Short answer: Jesus, a slave, telling followers to render the tax to Caesar in their slavery and obey the authorities. Long answer: all the provisions made for SLAVES in the OT. Anyone with just a cursory knowledge of history understands that from the beginning the engines driving all commerce—and thus existence—were slaves in one form or another right into the 20th century. Saudi Arabia, the last nation to do so, finally officially ordered the end to slavery in the 1960s, though it still exists all over the world, especially among the Muslims. Slavery was not an invention of the USA. It was introduced by the British nearly 200 years before Americans ended its import and nearly 250 or so years before it was ended in 1865. Slavery, whether right or wrong, was a fact of life in Bible times and so was handled as such and recognized THEN as permanent. So, take your bleeding heart somewhere else.


So, Jim, you see all the Bible as a level playing field with no progess in revelation. In other words, Jesus doesn't change anything. Glad to see your clarity.


Ed: Dave, why do you attribute to Jim something he did not say? You do have a right to your interpretation but as I see it, when moderators exppress their opinions they should be identified as such, rather than offered as fact. Folk need to recall Paul's use of "I not the Lord" example.
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Re: Pray for Charlottesville and our country

Postby William Thornton » Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:33 pm

Whenever the mighty moderator speaketh, Ed, his name is in red not blue. Easy to spot.
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Re: Pray for Charlottesville and our country

Postby Jim » Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:10 pm

See attached for Charlottesville explanation:
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Re: Pray for Charlottesville and our country

Postby JE Pettibone » Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:05 pm

Jim wrote:See attached for Charlottesville explanation:


Ed: Again Jim, well done.
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Re: Pray for Charlottesville and our country

Postby Jim » Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:23 pm

Haruo wrote:And was Onesimus sent back against his will or was he sent back as a willing coworker?

Your guess is as good as mine.
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Re: Pray for Charlottesville and our country

Postby Jim » Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:37 pm

Sandy wrote:
Jim wrote:
Sandy wrote:
You said it, Jim. So put your "biblical principles" out on the table here. Virtually every post you've made on this subject is sympathetic to the white supremacists, and opposed to anything or anyone who takes a side against them. So I'm just going to put this out here in as clear a manner as I can. Do you believe that the Bible teaches racial equality?


Short answer: Onesimus sent back to Philemon by Paul as a slave to remain a slave. Short answer: Jesus, a slave, telling followers to render the tax to Caesar in their slavery and obey the authorities. Long answer: all the provisions made for SLAVES in the OT. Anyone with just a cursory knowledge of history understands that from the beginning the engines driving all commerce—and thus existence—were slaves in one form or another right into the 20th century. Saudi Arabia, the last nation to do so, finally officially ordered the end to slavery in the 1960s, though it still exists all over the world, especially among the Muslims. Slavery was not an invention of the USA. It was introduced by the British nearly 200 years before Americans ended its import and nearly 250 or so years before it was ended in 1865. Slavery, whether right or wrong, was a fact of life in Bible times and so was handled as such and recognized THEN as permanent. So, take your bleeding heart somewhere else.


I didn't ask you about slavery, or whether the Bible teaches that it is right or wrong. I asked if you believe the Bible teaches racial equality. None of your verbal diarrhea here either answers that question, nor any other from what I can see.


You'll have to pardon my ignorance but is racial equality a subject like maybe Old Testament 101? Perhaps you'll give a scripture to help me having to do with racial equality (if it's there, of course, or do I need to invent it?). Or...do you wonder if racial equality means any slave is equal to any other slave? This is deep stuff and I'm probably not up to it. Incidentally, perhaps you might consult a fifth-grader to discover the difference between verbal and written. As for diarrhea, we can all see to what end you have to resort to be at least somewhat articulate. More's the pity.
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Re: Pray for Charlottesville and our country

Postby Jim » Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:14 pm

Dave Roberts wrote:
Jim wrote:
Sandy wrote:
You said it, Jim. So put your "biblical principles" out on the table here. Virtually every post you've made on this subject is sympathetic to the white supremacists, and opposed to anything or anyone who takes a side against them. So I'm just going to put this out here in as clear a manner as I can. Do you believe that the Bible teaches racial equality?


Short answer: Onesimus sent back to Philemon by Paul as a slave to remain a slave. Short answer: Jesus, a slave, telling followers to render the tax to Caesar in their slavery and obey the authorities. Long answer: all the provisions made for SLAVES in the OT. Anyone with just a cursory knowledge of history understands that from the beginning the engines driving all commerce—and thus existence—were slaves in one form or another right into the 20th century. Saudi Arabia, the last nation to do so, finally officially ordered the end to slavery in the 1960s, though it still exists all over the world, especially among the Muslims. Slavery was not an invention of the USA. It was introduced by the British nearly 200 years before Americans ended its import and nearly 250 or so years before it was ended in 1865. Slavery, whether right or wrong, was a fact of life in Bible times and so was handled as such and recognized THEN as permanent. So, take your bleeding heart somewhere else.


So, Jim, you see all the Bible as a level playing field with no progess in revelation. In other words, Jesus doesn't change anything. Glad to see your clarity.


Always glad to clarify. Actually, I see the Bible as the inspired Word of God and have never thought of it as either a lea or where ten yards means a first down but you have given me an opportunity to think about something as important as the Bible as it relates to any kind of field, even one that's tilted instead of level, although such would be hard to find except around a tobacco barn. I think God is dynamic but that the Bible is static (John warned about messing with it), so I don't see progress in revelation, not even in Revelation, though the great white horse surely made some progress of some kind. In other words, YOU think Jesus doesn't change anything. I didn't even mention that but give you credit for attempting to assuage my ignorance.
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Re: Pray for Charlottesville and our country

Postby Jon Estes » Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:22 am

Dave Roberts wrote: I think God is dynamic but that the Bible is static (John warned about messing with it)


Dave,

Would you mind to briefly explain what you mean by dynamic?

I really want to clearly understand what you are wanting to say.
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