Demons and Demonization

[Rvaughn]

What do you believe about demons and demon possession in this age? Can it happen? If so, to whom? And, if so, how can you tell?

Not looking for a debate, but am interested in your biblical and personal opinions.

I have encountered a situation in which a man has been diagnosed as bi-polar. He has social adjustment problems, including violence, but seems to manage fairly well when he is working and taking his medication. The violence is often associated with alcohol. One of his family members has decided he is possessed by a demon -- that this is the only explanation for his erratic behavior that can't ever seem to be fixed or resolved. Just putting that out there as some background for my opening post -- feel free to discuss the topic in broad terms and not just about this disorder.

Any thoughts appreciated.

[Dave Roberts]

I'm almost afraid to venture into this subject, but I don't want it to go unanswered. First, I am often baffled by the characterizations that come from many people. There needs to be a careful definition of what the person means who describes someone as "demon possessed." I seldom hear much definition. Second, I believe that all things that destroy, frustrate, or remove meaning from our lives are less than God's intention and therefore by corollary are "demonic." That is much wider than just behavior that may have roots in psychiatric diseases. Third, I find that many of the things that I personally would brand as demonic are the things that are more likely to be social justice issues than mere behaviors of one person. In this I draw on a German-language work by Paul Tillich, "Das Daimonische," in which he saw the forces at work in Europe in the 1930's that led the world into World War II as being the demonic realities of the world. In many ways, I see the demonic in ultra-nationalism, racism, anti-immigrant groups and anti-religious groups. That, I hope, might provide some fodder for the discussions.

[Haruo]

"Demon Rum" is an apt if not particularly theological or scientific term for alcoholic beverages as they are perceived (often both by the drinker and by associates and relatives) in their effect on those of us afflicted with alcoholism. I am extremely grateful for my freedom from this particular demon for over three decades now (my last drink took place on the morning of September 1, 1984).

In a more Gadarene-swineherdy vein, I shall return to this thread later today and write up a report on my nearly overwhelming sense of calling to cast a demon out of her in (I'm guessing) 1985, at a time when although I was sober through the direct intervention and grace of God (as I conceived it) I was not yet a Christian (again?).

[Joseph Patrick]

From Joseph Patrick...aka Gerry Milligan
I think that Harou probably has given the definitive answer with "demon rum" as the answer. It was said that the behavior was exacerbated by alcohol. If it were demon possession would it ebb and flow to the point that the person can work? And would man's medications affect a demonic possession? Bipolar patients are treated with medication which levels out their "spells" of mania and depression. To me, logically, demonic possession would not necessarily respond to medication.

[Rvaughn]

[Rvaughn]

[Sandy]

[Tim Bonney]

While I certainly believe in the existence of evil, I think most of the scriptures related to demon position are really talking about mental illness. I really don't believe in demons "possessing" human beings, particularly Christians.

[Rvaughn]

[David Flick]

[Dave Roberts]

[Rvaughn]

[Rvaughn]

[Sandy]

I agree with David's post above, that Satan, and by extension, demons, can't do what God won't allow. I think the New Testament references to demonic "possession," or "unclean spirits" is the context by which people of that day classified and characterized mental illness. If you look at most of the references to it in the NT, the language and descriptions are similar to healings from physical ailments, and there are some cases where the physical condition is linked to an "unclean spirit." All of these events seem to fall into the category of being healed by Jesus.

The idea of possession, or oppression by external evil beings leads to a lack of concern and care in watching out for the development of things which can be corrupt and evil within yourself. People have strong emotions and deep feelings and it is easy to cause passion to flare up around their prejudices and fears, leading to actions that are corrupt and evil. Passing that off as demon possession or oppression is a way to avoid taking responsibility and doing something about it.

[Rvaughn]

[Haruo]

[Tim Bonney]

[Tim Bonney]

[Haruo]

In the ensuing years, after my (re?)conversion in 1990-91 to professing Jesus as Lord and Savior, I have told this story a few times, usually in connection with Bible studies on passages in the scriptures involving demon possession and/or exorcism. On a couple of occasions others in the group have castigated me for my self-control, saying that I should have yielded to the urge to exorcise. I think it's a slippery slope from that to trying to reenact Abraham's (interrupted) sacrifice of Isaac to prove one's faith and/or God's loving-kindness. I agree with you that it is unlikely that Bernice was actually possessed by a demon (in the sense of a personalized spirit subservient to Satan or Lucifer or somebody in the vaults of hell sent to supplant her spirit and torment the rest of us) and that her annoying behavior was probably a mental health matter, perhaps brought on by childhood trauma or by recent ingestion of controlled substances. But the thing that shocked me was that I felt like exorcising her/it/him in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. That was not vocabulary I was accustomed to using at that point.

[JE Pettibone]

[Joseph Patrick]

From Joseph Patrick... aka Gerry Milligan

What NOT to do when confronted by demon possession; While I was serving in Dubai I was assisting a Pakastani fellowship who had a bivocational pastor with a workshop on evangelism. This was to be a 4 event workshop, one each week. At the second workshop some of the elders approached me about a young congregant who they thought was demon possessed and would I pray for her? I reluctantly agreed (at that time the IMB was very ambiguous about demons and gifts of the Spirit). I agreed to pray if the pastor, his wife and a couple of the elders would also pray. I told them I would start and end the prayer time, but please, everybody pray. At the end of that time she declared herself "free of everything." When I went back the next week I was told she was fine but the following week they told me she was again "under a spell." Me, in my insensitivity said, "You mean she has been re-possessed?" Fortunately, English was not their first language and I was able to get by with a giant faux pas.

[Jon Estes]

Demon possession is real in the lives of some who know not Christ.

There is no biblical support for demon possession for those who belong to Christ. A case could be made for demons being unable to possess believers. They will and do oppress believers as often as possible.

Mental illness is real also but should not be tied directly to demon possession in all cases. Mental illness is here because of sin, not demons though I believe demons can manifest themselves through some they possess in mental illness type of behaviors.

To much more known about the subject to share here.

[Rvaughn]

[Sandy]

[KeithE]