Reminder of forum rule #2

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Re: Reminder of forum rule #2

Postby KeithE » Mon May 15, 2017 8:54 am

JE Pettibone wrote:Ed: Keith, what is malicious about warning some one about a perceived danger? Note, as you quote him, Jim said nothing about a possibility or probability of Sandy being shot in his own home. And since jim says "go to" Pennsylvania I question if he was referring to Sandy who as you say is already in PA.
And while quoting Jim, how about letting the rest of us judge how "nicely" you warned him?

BTW it was only 8:41 here in Tucson when I posted this.


On the face of it, Ed, Jim’s words was a warning about being shot if Sandy persistent in his views. But just beneath that veneer, there was, imo, malicious attitudes not only with the gun warning but the drug instruction for Sandy’s supposed PESTD. I stand by that judgment.

I see that Jim has posted something and actually linked some explanatory stuff about Obama’s 2008 “cling to their guns” words in PA. Welcome back.
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Re: Reminder of forum rule #2

Postby KeithE » Mon May 15, 2017 9:05 am

Jim wrote:
Haruo wrote:I remember that quotation from Obama, but it didn't come to mind in this context until you pointed it out, Jon. Thanks. The allusion is clear and well-executed.

In an effort to delete some posts of hymns, etc., that I had submitted, I chanced to see the fallout from my perfectly innocent remarking of Obama's description in 2008 of Hillary's deplorables of 2016. I figured that the most self-admitted sophisticated of posters (the anti-Trump crowd) would surely get the point but I was wrong. Here are some sites to observe: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/12/21/obama-dusts-off-his-cling-to-guns-or-religion-idea-for-donald-trump/?utm_term=.a448f7b6a2f4;
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/apr/14/barackobama.uselections2008;%20http://www.politico.com/blogs/ben-smith/2008/04/obama-on-small-town-pa-clinging-to-religion-guns-xenophobia-007737; http://www.christianitytoday.com/gleani ... igion.html. I hope they still work but crude Pennsylvanians (actually evangelicals and Pentecostals) were put down by Obama amongst his many visits to the Hollywood wallets of agnostics and USA-haters, generally. So...searching with double-barrels under the bushes for immigrants (not Obama's "typical white persons" like his grandmother, who raised him) while reading the Psalms described the elitist attitude fairly accurately.

Sorry to have caused such furor among especially the self-righteous and uber-tender-hearted. Sensitivity has its place. Actually, I was once referenced by a moderator as a mule with ill-fitting blinders but I just laughed it off. Have a good day.

Glad you are back, Jim. A warning is not meant to be a request that you leave.

Here is Obama’s 2008 quote:

You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.


I find Obama’s words prescient of the whole Trump campaign and administration.
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Re: Reminder of forum rule #2

Postby Sandy » Mon May 15, 2017 10:59 am

Interesting that Jim cites an article from the Washington Post which provides the substantiation for both statements made by President Obama, the original one during the 2008 primary, and the most recent one, during the 2016 campaign.

The Washington Post wrote:And then there's this: There is objective evidence that the president is in large part correct.

Is it really a wonder that some Trump supporters sucker punch, spit, hit, kick and spit upon protesters who don't share their views? He's a master at what he does: manipulate legitimate frustration and anxiety for political gain. Or, at least that's how the president put it Monday.

It's certainly also true that there are lot of Americans — of all races, ethnicities and genders— struggling with some of these same economic and social challenges. But only white men have ever historically enjoyed exclusive access to family-sustaining or actual high pay with limited education, then for decades more enjoyed at least reliable access to those same jobs.

As a result, only white men in the United States and perhaps those whose economic and social fortunes are most closely tied to these men have developed a sense that this was not just a state of affairs created by social and legal structures that tipped the scale in their favor. These Americans balk at any description of themselves as a distinct group — an important but still limited part of the American masses — precisely because the country operated to their exclusive and then their primary benefit for so long that no matter what has changed, their economic and social dominance and stability just seems like the natural and proper state of affairs.

White male entitlement — yes we said entitlement — and the actual and not-all-imagined paucity of jobs with solid pay for those with limited education are part of what make these voters so angry and so eager — as oh so many Trump supporters have said — to consume Trump's "politically incorrect" comments about who is to blame and what needs to be done to restore American greatness.

In this sense, Trump's campaign slogan isn't some kind of haphazard catchphrase that happens to fit well on the width of a trucker hat. It's a thing of brevity and brilliance. It's a love letter to the white, American male voter with limited education (and some others). It is a message tailor-made for those who believe that booting 11 million undocumented immigrants out of the country and surveilling Muslims wholesale will resolve their economic woes and keep their families safe.


In other words, President Obama got it right.
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Re: Reminder of forum rule #2

Postby Tim Bonney » Mon May 15, 2017 9:28 pm

Jim and I are almost never on the same page. Jim and I don't even talk. But I think this has gotten blown up out of all proportion. I doubt Jim actually meant anyone was going to get shot.

Can we all just cool our jets here? I see this happen often in online discussions. It is so easier for posts to escalate because we can't see facial expressions or hear tone of voice. This forum has few enough participants. We don't really need to lose anyone do we?
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Re: Reminder of forum rule #2

Postby Rvaughn » Mon May 15, 2017 10:39 pm

Well said, Timothy.
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Re: Reminder of forum rule #2

Postby Jon Estes » Tue May 16, 2017 2:30 pm

Sandy wrote:Interesting that Jim cites an article from the Washington Post which provides the substantiation for both statements made by President Obama, the original one during the 2008 primary, and the most recent one, during the 2016 campaign.

The Washington Post wrote:And then there's this: There is objective evidence that the president is in large part correct.

Is it really a wonder that some Trump supporters sucker punch, spit, hit, kick and spit upon protesters who don't share their views? He's a master at what he does: manipulate legitimate frustration and anxiety for political gain. Or, at least that's how the president put it Monday.

It's certainly also true that there are lot of Americans — of all races, ethnicities and genders— struggling with some of these same economic and social challenges. But only white men have ever historically enjoyed exclusive access to family-sustaining or actual high pay with limited education, then for decades more enjoyed at least reliable access to those same jobs.

As a result, only white men in the United States and perhaps those whose economic and social fortunes are most closely tied to these men have developed a sense that this was not just a state of affairs created by social and legal structures that tipped the scale in their favor. These Americans balk at any description of themselves as a distinct group — an important but still limited part of the American masses — precisely because the country operated to their exclusive and then their primary benefit for so long that no matter what has changed, their economic and social dominance and stability just seems like the natural and proper state of affairs.

White male entitlement — yes we said entitlement — and the actual and not-all-imagined paucity of jobs with solid pay for those with limited education are part of what make these voters so angry and so eager — as oh so many Trump supporters have said — to consume Trump's "politically incorrect" comments about who is to blame and what needs to be done to restore American greatness.

In this sense, Trump's campaign slogan isn't some kind of haphazard catchphrase that happens to fit well on the width of a trucker hat. It's a thing of brevity and brilliance. It's a love letter to the white, American male voter with limited education (and some others). It is a message tailor-made for those who believe that booting 11 million undocumented immigrants out of the country and surveilling Muslims wholesale will resolve their economic woes and keep their families safe.


In other words, President Obama got it right.


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