Molly Worthen hits another home run

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Molly Worthen hits another home run

Postby Stephen Fox » Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:40 pm

What is Al Mohler and Russ Moore gonna do with this one?

She mentions my sister's hero Rachel Held Evans in the first paragraph.

Ive brought it to the attention of Bama US Rep Bradley Byrnes to ask how will he deal with this in the Bama land of Rick Burgess and Robert Bentley

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/13/opin ... .html?_r=0
"I'm the only sane {person} in here." Doyle Hargraves, Slingblade
"Midget, Broom; Helluva campaign". Political consultant, "Oh, Brother..."


http://www.foxofbama.blogspot.com or google asfoxseesit
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Re: Molly Worthen hits another home run

Postby Sandy » Fri Apr 14, 2017 5:26 pm

After reading Apostles of Reason, I'd say this is a hit, perhaps not a home run, while that was a strikeout.

She makes some good points.

Molly Worthen wrote:By contrast, the worldview that has propelled mainstream Western intellectual life and made modern civilization possible is a kind of pragmatism. It is an empirical outlook that continually — if imperfectly — revises its conclusions based on evidence available to everyone, regardless of their beliefs about the supernatural. This worldview clashes with the conservative evangelical war on facts, but it is not necessarily incompatible with Christian faith.


Yeah, and maybe with a bit more emphasis than she says this. Conservative Evangelicals don't complete the whole picture when they develop a theological view, they don't always include all of the possible conclusions. For example, they come up with a very strong view of the sanctity of human life, and pour that all into protecting the unborn, even though that's just nine months of a lifetime. Other things which are directly related to that perspective, like being provided with life saving health care, or the immorality and cruelty of execution, which takes the power of life or death out of God's hands, are ignored. And those who hold a view beyond the limited foresight of the conservative Evangelicals are considered liberals.

Molly Worthen wrote: “The skeptic looks at something and says, ‘I wonder,’ ” he said. “The cynic says, ‘I know,’ and then stops thinking.”


That stands alone as the best part of the piece.

Molly Worthen wrote:He pointed out that “cynicism and tribalism are very closely related. You protect your tribe, your way of life and thinking, and you try to annihilate anything that might call that into question.” Cynicism and tribalism are among the gravest human temptations. They are all the more dangerous when they pose as wisdom and righteousness.


That resonates with me, because it has been very disappointing to see conservative Evangelicals trade what they always championed as a strong theological foundation for political expediency to support a secular candidate who is at the polar opposite side of everything that they claim to be. As it turns out, many of the leaders of the evangelical movement have turned out to be more willing to abandon principle, and less rooted in the foundations of their Christian teaching than the liberal, mainline Christians of whom they are always critical. I keep thinking there has to be some underlying reason that has an awful lot more power than what shows on the surface. Cynicism and tribalism are apt descriptions of it.
Sandy
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Presheate the exegesis Sandy

Postby Stephen Fox » Fri Apr 14, 2017 5:31 pm

But as you know I think she is two for two. Two homeruns the first being Apostles of Reason.

Hope to share with Eric Kuykendall of staff FBC Spartanburg over the weekend and my new friend on Trey Gowdy's DC staff.

Shared my experience with him Thursday about the book So the Heffners Left McComb originally published 1965 by Hodding Carter, but reprinted last year with stellar new intro by U Mississippi Press with a panel on booktv.org

Compared the Heffners to a milder version our family faced in Gaffney in the 70s, though for certain we had some moments of high drama.
"I'm the only sane {person} in here." Doyle Hargraves, Slingblade
"Midget, Broom; Helluva campaign". Political consultant, "Oh, Brother..."


http://www.foxofbama.blogspot.com or google asfoxseesit
Stephen Fox
 
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Molly hits third homerun, 2nd this season

Postby Stephen Fox » Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:57 pm

With this piece.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... en/521409/

She spotlights Furman grad who chronicles the Cathy's of Chic Fil A, Darren Grem in this piece. Grem, native of Rock Hill South Carolina has family members there familiar with the dark career of Jim Deloach, who helped oust Randall Lolley from SEBTS, then hooked up with the Ed Young wing of the BGEA and his fellowship of excitement.
"I'm the only sane {person} in here." Doyle Hargraves, Slingblade
"Midget, Broom; Helluva campaign". Political consultant, "Oh, Brother..."


http://www.foxofbama.blogspot.com or google asfoxseesit
Stephen Fox
 
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Re: Molly Worthen hits another home run

Postby Sandy » Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:03 pm

OK, Stephen. Hold on to your hat. I read Apostles of Reason and I think she fizzles and misses making a strong point. We're not going to agree on that. The post I commented on above, not a home run, but definitely a hit. This one is the grand slam.

Molly Worthen wrote:Nowhere is this tendency more obvious than in the evangelical subculture that nurtured Donald Trump himself: the prosperity gospel. When Trump was a child, his family attended Marble Collegiate Church in New York City, pastored by Norman Vincent Peale, a celebrity minister whose influence radiated throughout evangelical circles and beyond. He was one of the most famous proponents of a spiritual style sometimes called the “Health and Wealth” gospel or “Name It and Claim It” faith.

Praying for a new car or a promotion may sound “shockingly materialistic,” FitzGerald writes. But for believers, prosperity theology means that the material world has “a miraculous, God-filled quality.” Its basic tenets appear throughout the Bible—the notion that God answers prayers, rewards believers with worldly blessings, and punishes those who don’t keep the faith. And then, like most heresies, it pushes such orthodox teaching to an extreme. Imagine that your desired reality is true, Peale urged believers. His handy slogan: “Prayerize, picturize, actualize.” Peale, the dean of “the power of positive thinking,” would have understood Trump’s penchant for inventing his preferred reality.


She makes some historical comparisons. Baptists made an alliance with Thomas Jefferson, who cut out all of the passages of the gospels about the miracles, because it was politically expedient for them to do so, to protect their religious liberty. The anti-government principles of conservative Christians went out the window quickly when they needed the government to legislate prohibition. Worthen contends that selling out is easier for conservative Evangelicals, who seem to do so more frequently than the mainliners they criticize, and the "liberals" whom they claim to despise for it because they ignore denominational structures, and many of their leaders have built large personal kingdoms, and have made themselves fabulously wealthy, off of peddling the gospel. The complete abandonment of their values in order to support Trump is easy to understand. Their money is the most important thing, and protecting it at all costs is their mission. So their Jesus looks a whole lot different than the one in the Bible.
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Molly interviewed on Mega church warriors and fundies for Tr

Postby Stephen Fox » Sun May 28, 2017 7:55 pm

https://giveandtake.fireside.fm/7 Listen online. Does not kick in till about ten minutes into the 35 minute interview.

She was interviewed couple weeks ago just after her piece in the Atlantic about evangelicals soul liberty and their inclination to Trump. She also talks about irregular church going nativists who use their sense of soul liberty as a mindset to go for trump and talks about the lack of ecclesiastical authority in the Baptist tradition that opens the way for Adrian Rogers, now Jeffress and Falwell Jr to use fundy history and authority of the Word in that tradition as an excuse to misapply for instance James Dunn's rubric of aint nobody gonna tell me. Thus seen it becomes a tool for demagogues and charlatans and we get Trump as a perfection of the underbelly of Bush 43/Rove Strategy with the "evangelical" community.

Listen to her, she does a better job of explaining herself then read the Atlantic piece; then the NY Times piece on fundies and the false narrative.
"I'm the only sane {person} in here." Doyle Hargraves, Slingblade
"Midget, Broom; Helluva campaign". Political consultant, "Oh, Brother..."


http://www.foxofbama.blogspot.com or google asfoxseesit
Stephen Fox
 
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Re: Molly Worthen hits another home run

Postby Sandy » Sun May 28, 2017 9:50 pm

This is really an excellent inverview, very engaging. I have to say, Stephen, that she's done some good research, though she doesn't ever land anywhere near your favorite topics, and you have to pull your usual trick of putting in a subject line and a couple of paragraphs to take us from Jesse Helms, John Birch society, the Texas Regulars, Paul Pressler, Wuthnow's Rough Country, to the First Baptist Church of Spartanburg, SC before getting to the point, which has distorted and filtered her thesis by then.
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Forbes and Chriss Ladd

Postby Stephen Fox » Mon May 29, 2017 9:07 am

Sandy, that's where the Forbes article comes in. He closes the deal. I trust you have read what he's said.

Ellen Rosenberg set the template 30 years ago in her book Subculture in Transition. Ive enjoyed some of your replies, but I'm beginning to doubt your reading comphrehension.

I will do what I can to ask Dr. Worthen some explicit questions and report to you hear. If the answers embarass me, I may send her responses to William Thornton first so he can interpret. Ha :brick: :brick: :lol: :gavel: :gavel: :gavel: :wave: :wave:
"I'm the only sane {person} in here." Doyle Hargraves, Slingblade
"Midget, Broom; Helluva campaign". Political consultant, "Oh, Brother..."


http://www.foxofbama.blogspot.com or google asfoxseesit
Stephen Fox
 
Posts: 8826
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2007 9:29 pm

Another North Carolina connected woman gets it

Postby Stephen Fox » Mon May 29, 2017 8:55 pm

Dianne Winston, Now at Berkley gets it. I remember seeing her in San Antonio SBC 88 and then again in Atlanta in the press room at the start of the CBF. Pretty sure she is a native of NC and know for certain she got her start with the Raleigh News and Observer. She knows what Jesse Helms did to Randall Lolley at SEBTS in 87 and what UNC Chancellor Bill Friday told Cecil Sherman about it.

So she knows what she's talking about in the following link.

FTR I had an exchange with an ADF staffer a few weeks ago about Handmaids Tale. Casey Mattox who Ive known since he was in sixth grade and I was his sub in Momma's alma mater in Bama said Handmaid's tale is a ruse and signifies nothing other than what leftist elites think it does in their own minds. To him it has no real connection in the heartland.

I think it may be out there in the atmosphere more than he knows.

Fascists is a strong word but I think Winston's piece would be good resource for students of FBC Spartanburg Truth for a New Generation conferences to think about.

Here's Winston

http://religiondispatches.org/a-pence-p ... its-money/
"I'm the only sane {person} in here." Doyle Hargraves, Slingblade
"Midget, Broom; Helluva campaign". Political consultant, "Oh, Brother..."


http://www.foxofbama.blogspot.com or google asfoxseesit
Stephen Fox
 
Posts: 8826
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2007 9:29 pm


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