A different Allah

[Haruo]

In the now-locked thread on "Dominionism vs. Christianity", Jim made the assertion that "Allah" and "God" are two different entities, I am interested in knowing what he means by this. Since "Allah" is (an English transliteration of) the name used for centuries by Arabic-speaking Christians and Jews to refer to the God of the Bible, the Father of Jesus and Lord of Moses and David, I am trying to figure out whether this means that (in Jim's mind) Arabic-speaking Christians have been praying to a false god all these years. Timothy et al., please let Jim speak for himself here. It's fine to exercise chinmoku if you wish, but don't do it by talking over the conversation I'm trying to have here.

[Joseph Patrick]

From Joseph Patrick aka Gerry Milligan
Harou, the ultra fundamentalists on the trustee board of the IMB, in their attempt to discredit "The Camel Method" were quick to try to have missionaries fired who used the word Allah...fortunately, this was one thing that Jerry Rankin stood up for. Could not say the same for BF&M of 2000 or whatever year it was that all missionaries had to sign or be fired.

[Jim]

[Dave Roberts]

OH DEAR! I managed to delete Dave's words about YHWH and substitute my comment below under Dave's name! I don't know when I last committed such an act of destructive vandalism here at BL.com! Dave, if you want to try to reconstruct your well-put post about Yahweh and Jehovah here, go ahead. I'll repost my comment about El below under my own name.

[Haruo]

[Jim]

[Jim]

[Haruo]

[Haruo]

And look up the Jewish temple at Elephantine (Aswan), where a polytheistic bunch of Gods alongside YHWH were worshipped, and YHWH had a divine consort. Was that the same God?

[Dave Roberts]

[Sandy]

Interesting that in a discussion of whether or not Allah of Islam is the same God as that of the Bible, no one has referenced the Koran. It certainly makes it clear that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is also the God of Issac and Ishmael (one reference) and the God of Abraham, Issac, Ishmael and Jacob (a second reference). I don't doubt that Mohammed's monotheism, or his use of the name "Allah" to describe who he believed was the same as the God of Abraham. The case for the name being the same, and the concept of a monotheistic, omnicient, omnipotent, omnipresent God being the same can easily be made.

As far as the essence of the character of Allah and Jehovah, or Yahweh, goes, if you ran a comparison of descriptions of the nature, character, and actions of God in the Old Testament, and the Muslim concept of Allah, you would find a lot of similarity. And while the New Testament doesn't change the nature or character of God, it does emphasize attributes and characteristic that are much different than the OT emphasis. Clearly, Mohammed was influenced greatly by the image of a wrathful, vengeful God who destroyed the enemies of the people who had gained his favor.

Are they the same God? Allah is not a genuine revelation of God, but is a creation of a god from the mind of a man who fancied himself to be his "prophet," discounting any of the other individuals who claimed to be prophets. Mohammed designed a god that was to his own benefit, who could be used to gain power by fear, different in that he more reflects the character and attitude of his creator than the God of the Bible, who possesses eternal power and divine nature. So I would say they have similar origins, but are not the same God.

[Joseph Patrick]

From Joseph Patrick...aka Gerry Milligan,

Jim, where did you come up with: "Simple Definition of Islam: the religion which teaches that there is only one God and Mohammed is His prophet!" This is NOT, and I repeat, NOT the definition of Islam. The three letter root, S L M is the same root for the Arabic word Salaam, which means peace. So, I repeat my introductory question, where did you get your definition?

[Jim]

[Haruo]

I'd be interested in Jon Estes's take on this.

[Tim Bonney]

[Joseph Patrick]

From Joseph Patrick...aka Gerry Milligan

Jim, there are many errors when using an English language dictionary for words or phrases in another language. The familiar greeting in Arabic, <Salaam alaikum> means "peace be upon you." Conservatives are so quick to try to find fault with our president (Bowing to a Saudi prince) and totally excuse George H. W. Bush when he bowed to the prime minister of Japan. I oft times wonder when this is brought up, is it a conservative or racist thought?

[Sandy]

[Haruo]

In the aftermath of 9/11, while sitting up nights outside the Idriss Mosque in North Seattle, I kept nmyself awake by singing, i.a.,

I got wings, you got wings, Allah (God)'s chilluns got wings.
When we get to hebben.... etc.

[Tim Bonney]

[Haruo]

This was the plaque (above the door of the mosque) which inspired my song, and beneath which I sat and sang it.

[Tim Bonney]

Good pic Hauro.

[Sandy]

[Tim Bonney]

[Jim]

[Joseph Patrick]

From Joseph Patrick ... aka Gerry Milligan,
Jim, I appreciate how you are trying to answer my statement about use of language. Also, I was aware that Pres Bush #41 became ill at a state dinner, and that was unfortunate. But, if you look at his arrival at the palace, he did bow. But, what does Japan's activities during WW II have to do with our conversation? As you try to obfuscate the issue, I bid you a fond farewell.