Out LGBTQ Bishop in the UMC!

[Tim Bonney]

I want to congratulate the Western Jurisdiction for elected an openly LGBTQ Bishop for the Western Jurisdiction of the United Methodist Church, Bishop Karen Oliveta, who has been pastoring Glide United Methodist Church. She was consecrated to the episcopacy this week.

[Ed Pettibone]

[Sandy]

Just curious, but I thought the UMC's official position was opposed to the ordination of LGBT persons as clergy. There was a highly publicized church trial here in PA not too long ago over an ordained Methodist minister who performed a same-gender wedding ceremony. Is it that a different district is more tolerant of particular issues?

[Tim Bonney]

[Sandy]

That almost sounds like Baptist independence and autonomy, that a jurisdiction can simply decide (by vote or consensus?) it doesn't agree with the denomination's position, and do what it wants.

[Tim Bonney]

[Tim Bonney]

On another note, the Iowa Conference is getting a new Bishop. She is newly elected and consecrated and will be the first woman to be Bishop of the Iowa conference. Bishop Laurie Haller currently pastoring in the Detroit Conference of the UMC.

[Tim Bonney]

[Sandy]

[Ed Pettibone]

[Haruo]

Ah, but we don't have the Melchizedek priesthood!

(Mrs. H. and I have been entertaining some Mormons recently. I think I might give myself a headache by reading the whole Book of Mormon for them.)

[Tim Bonney]

[Tim Bonney]

[Sandy]

If I recall from church history, neither of the Wesleys was inclined to mix church tradition with doctrine and theology. Their reform was primarily concerned with the latter, not with the institutional church. There's a bit of a similarity in there to both Anglican and Catholic tradition, since in both of those denominations, a
Bishop, no matter his level of rank, is a designated pastor of a local church. Even the Pope.

Baptist thinking stems from the use of the Greek term episkopos, which isn't distinguished by rank or removed from the membership of the local congregation that selects him. But there certainly are Baptists who get into denominational life, and elevate themselves to the role of "District Superintendent".

[Tim Bonney]

Yes, what I have learned is that Methodists have a huge amount of rules, polity and structure. But most all of it is changeable. Little of it is related to theology. It is related to how Wesley organized conferences of traveling preachers. And we have tacked other things on to that to keep that system working.

Wesley was a pragmatist more than a theologian. So when the Anglicans wouldn't send more clergy he ordained his own to the horror of his brother Charles. Wesley changed the structure and polity any time he thought it helped the mission of spreading scriptural holiness.

Our Bishops have less power than the RCC Bishops do though. RCC Bishops have an additional ordination as a Bishop. They control confirmation of new members. And they basically hold title to the local property. They also control ordination. Our Bishops ordained under the approval of the Clergy who vote in clergy session, the pastor of local churches confirm, and the conference holds the property and not the Bishop.

[Dave Roberts]

[Sandy]

[Haruo]

What I want to know is whether the Spanish book of Mormon is written in equally bad Reina Valera, the German in comparably awful Luther, etc. And I think I will finally spring for an Esperanto BoM...

[Haruo]

What I want to know is whether the Spanish book of Mormon is written in equally bad Reina Valera, the German in comparably awful Luther, etc. And I think I will finally spring for an Esperanto BoM...

[Ed Pettibone]

Ed: Over in the CBF fourm Tim Bonney said "if the UMC splits over sexuality issues our polity wouldn't allow for half way. You'd be in one denomination or the other. Honestly, I think that makes for a cleaner break. Not less painful. But maybe cleaner.

Here Tim is attempting compare the looming threat of a potential split within what is currently the United Methodist Church and the formation of the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship. This is akin to comparing 5 Guy's Hamburgers with their Black Bean Sandwich.it really can not be done. The latter 2 are quite similar in appearance, somewhat similar in texture, but I find the taste distinctly different, different because only the buns are the same the however the hamburger is made of an animal matter (ground beef) and the black been burger with an adulterated mixture of vegetable made primarily of black beens.

While being tasty sandwiches the The two are quite different. While Methodism and Baptist practices have a common goal of of attracting followers to Jesus of Nazareth the two are polar opposites in management style, with Methodist being more tightly wound and controlling than Baptist at their best. When a relatively small cadre of individuals insisted tighter control of the SBC the single largest Baptist org, on earth. and resorted to tactics of secular politics to displace the key leaders, and to make drastic operational change, some of those leaders and friends banned together and formed CBF which began devising ways to protect and continue the work of agencies, ministries and personnel who where being negatively impacted separate and apart from the convention. The new leadership retaliated by firing individuals know to be sympathetic with the fledgling organization. The where intelligent enough to know that there was no way for them to immediately rebuild and replace what had been. So they began building a support systems for those being displaced. They did create new Seminaries and other institutions for training ministers both male and female largely in existing Baptist Universities with existing solid endowments. CBF neither owed nor operated these institutions, but acted as a resource. for locating those with the skills knowledge and abilities needed. A new Missions program that allows Missionaries to utilize Skilled trades and Professions to reach indiviuals in need and at the same time strive to introduce them to Christ. While the SBC up their efforts at preaching to the heathen. Someof us feel that ministering to needs is more Christ like than preaching alone. Unlike the SBC, ABC-USA and Methodist CBF places the emphisis on meeting needs at the grass roots where they can be matched with willing and capable workers.

We refuse to be in competition with denominations we work with several and I for one like the returns. If a split over Homosexuality is in the works for the UMC perhaps the time and energy that ias sometimes wasted fighting cad be harnessed into true ministry. But it won't happen if you spend you strength trying to influence CBF or other Christian entites that are outside your circle. I am honestly satisfied that our rather small size permits us to be flexible. If we should have a growth spurt I pray Out leadership will not relax nor change the focus to maintaing growth.

[Tim Bonney]

You've mistaken my posts Ed if you think I'm attempting to influence the CBF. It is entirely just a discussion of interest to me. As a Methodist, I can't imagine why the CBF would car about my opinion one way or another.

I tried to follow your sandwich illustration, I guess I get what you mean. What I see in common is that everyone denomination or denomination like entity (even a fellowship) is dealing with the issue of human sexuality. Some groups have dealt with it in a unified way, some have split, but the issue continues to arise and will continue to arise. That is my only interest in the CBF.

As I'd never again allow myself to be a member of a congregationalist denomination, you have no fear of me having influence.

[Tim Bonney]

Also note, I started this discussion as a post about a LGBTQ Bishop, not the CBF.

[Ed Pettibone]

[Sandy]

[Tim Bonney]