Independence Day Sermons

[RyanHale]

I read here occasionally and you guys / gals have some good discussions and insight. So I thought I would pose a question to get some feedback.

Every year, I dread the Sunday when we celebrate Independence Day. When I was in the full time pastorate, I dreaded those Sundays even more because of the sermon expectations. It just seems that on this day the church goes to great lengths to make it seem as if the US has been specifically chosen by God to be great, and that we do no wrong because everything we do is the work of God. Jesus is presented as the All American Boy and it's almost as if you can't be an American unless you're a Christian, always that particular stripe at that.

Maybe I'm all wrong but that's the feeling I get each year when I leave the church.

Am I the only one?

[William Thornton]

You are correct. This Sunday (or last sunday) is the one when many SBC churches cover their crosses with flags, quote historical propagandists instead of Scripture, and tell Jesus to take a seat on the back pew.

[KeithE]

This sort of confluence goes on all year at some churches.

I still remember going to an AL SBC Convention in the late 80’s at Whitesburg BC to see 17 AL sate flags and 1 Christian flag arraigned across the stage.

[Tim Bonney]

We usually end up singing a patriotic hymn or two. But I've always used the weekend of the 4th as an opportunity to talk about church and state separation.

[Shawn Koester]

Our ultimate allegiance as Christians is to Jesus as our Lord and Savior and to the kingdom of God not Caesar's Empire. America's peace is not God's peace, Wall street's prosperity is not God's prosperity. Putting national flags in the house of the Lord is idolatrous. We are a church not a corporation, we are the body of Christ not national cheerleaders. There is a difference between nationalism and patriot.

[Dave Roberts]

I have made a few people mad on this weekend reminding them that when you put "God and...." whether that "and" item is country, flag, any other cause, and we are automatically in violation of the First Commandment. Whatever you do, don't subject me to a poorly done, "God Bless America" or "God Bless the USA."

[Chris]

[Chris]

[William Thornton]

[ET]

[William Thornton]

ET, I don't recall any big patriotic events at BBC prior to 1981, last Summer i was there. AR used to preach some current event politically driven sermons but always hit the right notes.

I'm just a cynic/critic because of what I've experienced since in churches: pyrotechnics, military themes, garb, paraphenalia, and equipment (SF guys rapelling upside down from the church ceiling was a genuine worship moment I am unlikely to forget), revisionist history/propaganda. When one church covered the cross up with a big flag, I decided enough was enough. When I planned my Episocpalian uncle's funeral last year and was informed that their rules prohibited a flag-draped casket in their sanctuary (they permitted it in an anteroom) I wondered why the lib Epis were more serious about Christian symbols than Baptists. Jesus gets scant mention in many of these patriotic sermons, replaced by civil religion "God bless America" stuff.

Guess my day is past.

[ET]

No, I don't think your day is past, William. I think the younger generation - at least some of them - is uncomfortable with the types of displays you mention. I converse with a 20-something seminary student that used to be our part-time music minister about these things from time to time. He talks of himself and others he knows that favor of undoing some of this mixing of the secular and the sacred.

Tomorrow we have a song service with all patriotic music, complete with pledge of allegiance to the flag. No songs about Jesus. All "God and country". Even got a color guard...probably because of our ex-Marine associate pastor's connection. I'm in the choir. I've grown to have mixed feelings about this stuff over the last decade. I was out of town last July 4th, so I avoided the situation. I debate whether or not to find some way to "excuse" myself from participation tomorrow.

P.S. You may have left right before the patriotic performances began. They were usually primarily a thing that substituted for the Sunday night service.

[Tim Bonney]

I agree with you William. I usually give a nod to the holiday with a hymn or two. That keeps the folks who want the day recognized happy. But I try to get them to avoid much more than that. I don't always manage to control people putting up decorations. But I do what I can.

[RyanHale]

Whew. Glad I'm not the only one.

[Neil Heath]

We put the Christian flag and American flag in the sanctuary for the 4th and one or two other Sundays a year. The rest of the year our flags are in the oldest men's class under the watchful eye of our veterans.

The hymns and sermon were not patriotic. The music was a solo rendition of "The Lord's Prayer" by Malotte. The main text was Paul's emphasis that we are all members of one body and all parts of the body are needed to function well. Our pastor did pay tribute to James Dunn and his contribution to the larger body of Christ through his tireless efforts to preserve and protect religious liberty.

[William Thornton]

Pastor is on vacation...associate preached on Zechariah. No flags, no nuthin', no problem. Every podunk crossroads did fireworks last night anyway.

[Haruo]

The UMC Music FB group hosted a recommendation by Dean McIntyre that one sing or have sung Fred Pratt Green's ”It is God who holds the nations”, in which I heartily concur.

[Stephen Fox]

Was a Sunday. Great Sermon at FBC Greenville SC. I was there. Invoked King and George W. Truett

Yesterday on July 4 I was at the Sacred Harp Convention in Henegar Alabama at Liberty Baptist Church. 200 voices strong. God Bless America

[ET]

Man, you boys are just a bunch of pinko commies. (Sadly, or maybe happily, the younger generation can't appreciate that "insult".)

Anyway, we had a patriotic "call to worship" ("America, I Still Can Hear Your Song") - or maybe I should call it an opening number. Then we had some local color guard bring in the flag, sang 3 verses of "God Bless America" and did the pledge of allegiance. "Offertory" was another patriotic song. Sermon was only nominally "patriotic" but had a few "Bartonesque" quotes that made me cringe.

[Haruo]

If you're serious, please send me the rest of the verses to God Bless America!

Or did you sing one of the four pre-Irving-Berlin songs called "God Bless America" that the Library of Congress offers? Hopefully not the Lil Wayne version.

[ET]

Funny thing, Haruo, I can't find the verses we sang. I was singing form printed pages that appeared to come from a hymnal based on format, but for the life of me I can't recall the verses at the moment. There was four. We sang the first, third and last. If I find them, I'll edit this post and list them.

[Haruo]

[Dave Roberts]

[Lou]

During my 24-year tenure in my current pastorate, my philosophy and practice re. patriotic emphases on certain Sundays of the year has been very much a work in progress. Once upon a time we had the Christian and U.S. flags up in the auditorium 24/7/365, and did patriotic (or perhaps nationalistic) worship themes for Memorial Day, Independence Day, Veterans Day, Flag Day... But then several years ago I had a series of challenging conversations with a friend who helped me realize that (as Dave aptly pointed out) when you say God AND anything else, you are violating the 1st commandment. My personal tipping point came when a certain church member began coming into the auditorium before the Sunday service and moving the U.S. flag to a higher position on the stage steps than the Christian flag. That's when I took the flags down for most of the year and put them back out only on those particular patriotic weekends. And then there came the time that they disappeared completely.

I did get some pushback from a couple of our church members, both veterans. One of those men raked me over the coals pretty heavily. This fella had served in the U.S. Air Force for 13 years, and wanted to make sure that he had the opportunity to stand and be recognized and applauded for his service at every opportunity. (Incidentally, this man never served in a combat zone, and rather than staying in the service until his 20-year retirement point, he took off his uniform in 1963. You do the math.)

Yesterday morning the instrumentalists played "America the Beautiful" as the offertory hymn, and that was the extent of our patriotic recognition.

[Haruo]

”America the Beautiful” is certainly the most famous hymn by America's best-known Lesbian hymnwriter IMHO. I like her othertwo that I know , but ”O beautiful for spacious skies” rightfully takes the cake.