Where are American churches headed in 20 years

[KeithE]

[Tim Bonney]

[Jon Estes]

[Dave Roberts]

[Jon Estes]

[Dave Roberts]

Here is a fascinating link on this subject and it is worth reading.

[KeithE]

Thanks Dave and Timothy for good polls about American Religion - and they both basically agree giving them more credibility.

While not directly indicative of the next 20 years, they do show our current vector.

[linda]

Dr. Bonney--thanks for your thoughtful replies! I think we are in accord on this issue. Our largest church here is the RCC and I doubt they can match your attendance numbers. When you say "big church" here you mean average attendance in the 50-75 range. Smaller ones are 20-35. Many of our pastors do have a Ph.D. or a D.Min.

Most are happy to serve here and understand folks are as generous as can be, but if the choice is put 10% in the plate or feed a baby, well, let's just say our babies tend to be well fed. I was wondering if the teachings of one particular pastor here, who basically said unless you figure out a way to tithe off your SNAP benefits and section 8 housing vouchers God will curse you were how most pastors outside our town see things?

I definitely have lived where the people were mostly upper middle class and expected a well educated clergy who looked, dressed, and lived upper middle class but expected them to do so on poverty wages. Not good at all.

My heart holds a very special place for Methodist circuit riders, lay ministers, etc. My dad was led to Christ by a retired Methodist minister and my childhood church was served by a circuit of 5 far flung preaching points. So was the church we attended when our kids were little. Same circuit, different church. Dedicated pastor worked on the pipeline weekdays, then travelled around 300 miles round trip each Sunday to serve the circuit. On a good month, with generous giving, I doubt he got more than gas money. I sure hope God rewarded him well by blessing his secular job. We weren't greedy or stingy, just not many folks and most of them poor.

[Sandy]

[Dave Roberts]

[linda]

Totally agree! I leave it to the person's conscience to tell them what to put in the collection plate at church, what to give directly to the needy, and even what to invest in jobs in their area IF that is the most effective means of meeting needs long term.

And yes, I had never run into anyone anywhere that would say failure to tithe put one under a curse, then go on to explain if you get SNAP benefits you need to figure out how to convert some to cash and tithe on it, the same with section 8 vouchers, etc.

We do have some widows on very low social security checks that could compete with the widow's mite Jesus spoke of, but I seriously doubt it is $60 per month that they can spare. It hurt my heart to see them blanche and weep during that sermon, feeling they had failed their Lord they love so much.

[Tim Bonney]

[Dave Roberts]

[Blake]

[KeithE]

[Tim Bonney]

[Tim Bonney]

Keith,

I'm not sure the definition on the Catholic site is quite complete for defining confessionalism. The UMC has statements of faith which are our official doctrinal statements. However there is not a strict set of interpretations or a strict set of requirements for close conformity that I see in what are labeled as confessional churches.

So I don't think any church with a confession of faith is "confessional." It depends on what you do with that confession and if and how you try to enforce it.

When someone joins a UMC church no one is specifically asked to uphold the Articles of Religion and Confession of faith. Clergy are expected to uphold them which is a different matter because we aren't members of the local church we are members of our conferences.

All that is to say that there are nuances between free church tradition and confessionalism. I think there is a lot of ground in the middle.

[Sandy]

[Tim Bonney]

I've seen few non-denom churches that are former denominational churches in my part of the world.

Sandy, I think if you drill down into the stats you will find that Baptists (confessional or non-confessional) aren't fairing as well as the non-denom churches. So how does that fit into a growth or lack of decline in confessional churches when so many people are running off to the non-denom?

Also, to be honest, I think there is a slight skew because many connectional and mainline churches are required to keep quite accurate membership records. I never pastored a Baptist church that accurately removed inactive members or move people to the inactive list. I'm not saying that the mainline isn't shrinking faster than the conservative churches. But I'd not be surprised if the SBC and others aren't shrinking faster than they are reflecting in the fuzzy math I saw in Baptist membership stats.

[Ed Pettibone]

[Blake]

[Dave Roberts]

[Tim Bonney]

[Tim Bonney]

[Tim Bonney]

Getting back to the topic of the thread -

Here is an article by Jonathan Merritt about some false interpretations of the place of the mainline and conservative Christians in the US.

One of the things to note is that the rate of membership decline in the UMC and the SBC is nearly identical.

http://methoblog.com/2015/05/evangelica ... landscape/