First Baptist Church Decatur, Ga

[KeithE]

[Tim Bonney]

This may be an issue for another thread. But given the fairly short tenure of pastors in many churches often ended by division, how do you think this is effecting interest by young people in entering the ministry?

I'm seeing far more UMC pastors retire than I'm seeing entering ministry. Do any of you know if that is true for the SBC, ABC, or CBF?

[KeithE]

[Tim Bonney]

[William Thornton]

[William Thornton]

[Dave Roberts]

William, you may be aware of something, but I question diminishing the educational requirements for ministry. I believe there is a greater need for letting a person do two years in the classroom followed by one to two years of an internship before they are turned loose on the church. I got through seminary by working, borrowing money through the Keesee Fund whose loans were cancelled at the rate of one year of loans cancelled for every two years of ministry. We need life-long learning models that provide resources for continuing professional development for clergy. It was also my privilege to do a year of internship with a church staff. Without those, I would have been even more lost when I went to my firsts pastorate.

[Ed Pettibone]

William wrote "The traditional 3 year MDiv has tuition costs about $25k in an SBC seminary. for SBs. Add undergrad debt, reduced income for many who are 2nd career ministerial students, etc and you have an unsustainable seminary model...so I am reading. I like the 2 year abbreviated MDiv and see no impediment to its being comparable in churning out clergy other than established seminaries being reluctant to cut their tuition revenue stream by 1/3."

That tuition figure is a bit higher than I found at Southeastern 92Semester hours in an M/Div hours for SB came out to $21,758 and $43,416 for other than So. Baptist. Mid Western was somewhat less.

I almost agree with Dave when he says "I question diminishing the educational requirements for ministry. I believe there is a greater need for letting a person do two years in the classroom followed by one to two years of an internship before they are turned loose on the church." But I am not enthused with just two years of classroom. After all several of you have commented on additional curriculum that you wish you had. Trudy was able to test out of some intro Bible and languages at SBTS after an outstanding Religious Studies undergrad program. That enabled her to take some advanced Bible and some "more practical" offerings in the RE School, to fulfill her 92 Class hours. Her SME working as a teaching assistant with a Priest/Professor at a Catholic University (Bellarmine) was invaluable.

[Sandy]

[Tim Bonney]

United Methodists have long had two tracks to ordination (at least.) One is the usual 4 years of college and three years of seminary model. Another is what is called the "Course of Study" model where you take classes through the denomination while working in a church. This model can take a long time as you only take a few classes at a time while working. But it helps people who cannot afford seminary, entered ministry as a second career, etc.

There has been some discussion about beefing up or changing the Course of Study model to become a more viable model for more clergy. Having looked at the Course of Study material it looks very comparable to an MDiv. and I wonder if it could be accredited some how though the seminaries might oppose that as it would add to the competition.

Historically, before the MDiv. model, Course of Study was THE way United Methodist clergy were trained.

[Haruo]

[William Thornton]

See new topic on clergy degrees and education.

[William Thornton]

The AJC has an article today on the resignation. While she is light years from me on some issues (LGBT welcoming and all that), I admire the way she handles things and this resignation is particularly professional and admirable. She acknowledges that her leadership is a "sticking point" for many in the church, a bit of transparency her male colleagues are stubbornly loath to admit, even as the church crumbles around them. Any old line town center church is a challenge.

The AJC story is not linkable...maybe later.

[Big Daddy Weaver]

[Tim Bonney]

Usually it is the best decision to resign and walk away graciously. While a last minute pot-shot sounds like it could be personally satisfying, it won't change anything you couldn't change while you were there.

[Dave Roberts]

[Sandy]