OSAS

[Michael Wrenn]

Are there any Baptists here who do not hold to "once saved, always saved"?

[Haruo]

I am a universalist. I think salvation is God's basic intent.

[Michael Wrenn]

[Ed Pettibone]

[Tim Bonney]

Many Baptists, those in the Free Will Baptist tradition and many in the ABC/USA don't believe in OSAS. Many Free Will Baptists merged into the then Northern Baptist Convention in early 1900s. When I was pastoring a Baptist church in Iowa I found my church incredulous at the idea that anyone could believe in the Calvinist leaning doctrine of OSAS. Some had never heard of it.

I'm not a Baptist anymore so my own views now are not really relevant to your question though (just for informational purposes) I don't believe in OSAS and have not for probably twenty years or more.

[Lamar Wadsworth]

The late Dr. Dale Moody, long-time theology prof at SBTS, who took his lumps over this issue, wisely pointed out that both extremes in the debate commit what he called the "punctiliar fallacy," essentially reducing salvation to the conversion experience. Bill Leonard made a similar observation in talking about people stuck in revisiting their conversion experience to make sure they really "got saved." Ironic that Dale Moody was forced into retirement prematurely for teaching the same view that A. T. Robertson taught at the same school 40 years earlier.

[Tim Bonney]

[Sandy]

I've met few Baptists, including most of those in the CBF/Moderate Baptist tradition, who did not accept the doctrine of eternal security. I think it is more due to the combination of the strength of other doctrinal emphases among Baptists, such as priesthood of the believer, a more literal concept of grace, symbolic baptism administered after a profession of faith, and a strong emphasis on the doctrine of eternal security. The idea of salvation by grace, and the use of terminology translated "eternal" that is the strongest usage of that term in the original language, is strong evidence for people who tend to interpret the Biblical text literally.

[Sandy]

[Dave Roberts]

In the popular mindset, OSAS and "the security of the believer" are lumped as the same thing. To me, it does not seem identical. OSAS is a more transactional salvation doctrine while "the security of the believer" seems to encompass God's ability to keep what is committed to him. There is a vast difference between the two.

[Haruo]

The soul that on Jesus hath lean'd for repose,
I will not, I will not desert to its foes.
That soul, though all hell should enđeavour to shake,
I'll never, no, never , no, never forsake.

[Tim Bonney]

[Tim Bonney]

[Jon Estes]

If one can lose their salvation, what is it that is the cause for such loss?

For me, the idea of losing ones salvation would have to be due to not doing something correct - sinful... A behavior type action. If our actions (behaviors / works) cannot save us, why would they be able to cause us to lose salvation?

Then again, maybe the answer to my first question can clear this matter up.

jle

[Dave Roberts]

[Tim Bonney]

[KeithE]

[Tim Bonney]

[KeithE]

[Tim Bonney]

[Haruo]

But if you do play golf for all eternity or whatever you do, do it all to the glory of God.

Don't underestimate the generosity of the Lord towards someone who spent an earthly prison term in church every Sunday (maybe even in vestments) but wishing she could be on the links. Not to mention all the poor who simply couldn't come up with the greens fees.

[Haruo]

Fun thread on UMC discipline in the UMC Music FB group this morning, in which I mentioned Both OSAS and OBAB.

[Tim Bonney]

[Tim Bonney]

[Haruo]

Heck, I even mentioned UHOPFAP, which we all know is neither Methodist nor Baptist. OBAB is "Once Baptized Always Baptized"; the thread deals with threatening people with church discipline for violations of the BOM, BOD, or (and this was a new one on me) This Holy Mystery.

Oh, and I misspoke in saying it was on the UMC Music thread; it was on the personal FB timeline of Dean McIntyre, who's the head of the Music end of UMCDiscipleship.org for a few months yet (retiring soon).