OSAS

[Jon Estes]

[Jon Estes]

[Haruo]

I believe God is smart enough, sneaky enough, loving enough, and powerful enough to circumvent the problem of free will either by nudging/walloping people around to where they choose Him by their own free will, or by creative accounting practices (Abraham's faith was accounted as righteousness, ¿no?), or by some other means unknown to me.

[Haruo]

[Tim Bonney]

[KeithE]

[Tim Bonney]

[KeithE]

[Tim Bonney]

[Sandy]

I don't see a problem with the Hebrews passage for eternal security. If you read it in the original language, understanding the context of the passage as being written to people who were Jewish, the reference to having "fallen from grace" is not equated with salvation. Translated into English, terms like "tasted", "enlightened," and "experienced" are indicators of people who were exposed to Christian faith, and moved along by the Holy Spirit to the point of conviction of sin and perhaps even repentance, but who did not take the final step to actually receive grace through faith in Christ, rather reverting back to reliance on Jewish law and ritual. There are similarities here with Mark 3:29, which refers to blaspheming the Holy Spirit as a sin which cannot be forgiven. The Holy Spirit brings regeneration, a process that is well beyond the "tasting" or the convicting of sin that is described in Hebrews. Blaspheming the Spirit is turning away from God's truth after having seen it, and having it revealed. It is unforgivable because the Spirit does not return to those who have come so far as to "taste" and therefore cannot experience conviction of sin leading to repentance again. In the original language, the term's concept is not "falling out of grace", which, because of the very nature of grace, is impossible, but "falling away from grace," as if you had walked up to it and then, upon seeing it, turned back.

The only real difference I see between those who accept "OSAS," and those who do not, comes in the way they do church. Works become more of a security blanket for those who believe they can lose their salvation. There are those who have a hard time imagining a God so graceful that whatever you do after receiving his grace is still covered by grace, and others who see that as a license to sin and not be governed by conscience, both positions of which are based on false assumptions. God doesn't want you to live in fear of him jerking your salvation away from you, nor does he want you to live as you please and ignore his plan for your life just because you have guaranteed eternity.

[Ed Pettibone]

[Haruo]

[Jon Estes]

[Michael Wrenn]

[Sandy]

I think Michael Wrenn was the original post on this topic. What I'd like to know is what difference do you think it makes, whether you believe in OSAS, or not? If you don't believe in it, and it turns out it was true, it won't really matter much in eternity. If you do believe in it, it won't matter much in eternity, either. If it turns out not to be true, hopefully you haven't crossed the line, wherever it is. I think there's plenty of scriptural evidence to indicate that God's strong enough to keep you close, and you'll know if you are straying.

Secondary and tertiary doctrines usually become weapons and projectiles that churches and denominations launch at each other to feel more secure about their own practices, doctrine and faith, or to use as marketing techniques to grab off members from other churches. Most American Christians are interested in the church insofar as it provides them with their weekly fix for religiously based entertainment. Perhaps the Quaker idea of unprogrammed worship, and the "inner light" is right on target.

[Michael Wrenn]

[KeithE]

[Sandy]

[Tim Bonney]

[Tim Bonney]

[Tim Bonney]

[Haruo]

Of course if a conversion experience doesn'tlead to a ddesire, at least, to do a better job of following Jesus/serving God, one might ask whether that's what it was in the first place.