"The Exiled Generations" general discussion

[William Thornton]

[Big Daddy Weaver]

The book took a very long time to get published. It is my understanding that Kell had a difficult time lining up contributors.

I was asked to contribute a chapter back in 2008 (it may have been 2006-2007) and I agreed. I never submitted a chapter, as it appeared the book might not come together and I had alot of other writing projects, including doctoral work, on my plate!

There are obviously some stories worth sharing out there of people in there 30s and 40s. But, I had kinda gotten to the point where I'd moved on, didn't see the upside personally in rehashing the past in a chapter format.

I'd also part ways with Kell's framing of his series, particularly the word "Exiled" - I've never felt that way, and in my dad's case, being exiled from Brewton-Parker College to Baylor University gives new meaning to the word "exiled" (though, admittedly, it was a rough go for a few years, being forced out of a place you'd called home for 13 years is not fun)

[Dave Roberts]

I confess that I have not yet read the book. My only real interest in in Fox's contribution. Like many of those who were part of the battles, I have long since moved on. It is no longer a central focus for me as it was in the 1980's and very early 1990's. My interest now is in doing intentional interim work to help churches become more healthy as they prepare for the next pastor. In doing that, unless a church brings this into the discussion of their affiliations, it is not my concern. I only enter the discussions here to sometimes correct facts that I find badly misrepresented. I think Aaron has struck a good balance on the subject.

[Tim Bonney]

[Stephen Fox]

And there are expected reviews to come fairly soon in Alabama papers.

http://baptistnews.com/faith/history/it ... -book-says

Leading Texas CBF Texas voice George Mason has endorsed the book on his facebook wall and it has come to the attention of the Baugh family there.

The intro speaks to some of Big Daddy's concerns about getting the work done. Two who promised to contribute backed out because of pressures apparently from moderate baptist institutions and Kell expresses some disappointment at that.

As for Big Daddy, I took a refresher quick look at his work on James Dunn last night, a gift from Big D which I appreciate. It is not a perfect work either, though I again was struck bry his references to Stewart Newman, a hero of mine, who I share with James Dunn. While Big D's work on Dunn is very worthwhile there is a much better sotry on Dunn yet to be told that goes back to the 48 Senate race in Texas and shows how the politics of Moyers and Dunn vs Criuswell, Pressler and Patterson had its origins there and how Baptist and Texas politics evovolved from there. What Big D can do to add to Baylor's PHD program is do a paper with reference to Wuthnow's Rough Country instead of going out of his way to diminish a good effort by Kell and the folks therein.

And Thonrton, if you add the 20 pages in the Roman numberals intro you get about 189 pages instead of 169.

I have a speacil shout out to you in a forthcoming blog and in the Jerry Vines legacy thread in History of this section.

That said if you can make it 45 minutes west of Rome, Ga, it looks like late April if KeithE and Lamar will show there may indeed be a rib and potato soup get together just up Lokout Mtn from Leesburg Alabama. Show or quit whining!!!

[Stephen Fox]

I heard Chafin in the flesh at Samford April 7, 1987. He was there on a Thursday and Paige Pat on the Tuesday before.. Ken mighta been on the 9th. I went down for both events. There Ken said: " A Bible in the hands of a believer who has not submitted it to rational means of investigation is a dangerous thing, and has often been used to buttress up injustice."

Given Criswell and Jesse Helms history in the 60s forward, and the outer network of Pressler, that right there proves to me who the good guys were in this matter. Hint, it wasn't ed McAteer, Arkansas' Bob Foster, Bama's Albert Lee Smith and the far right network of Jesse Helms and Gary North that were the Gospel in the takeover.

It is sad Pressler could demagagoue enough pulses into convention centers to abort everything good about the SBC and its cutting edge agencies like Valentine's work by a bunch of near White Citizens Council demagogues. Don't erase this, Princeton's Wuthnow drives that point home in Rough Country.

The SBC should not have fallen and did not fall because of a few comments by Ken Chafin on the Donohue show. Thornton is too smart to really believe that!

[William Thornton]

Didn't say that stehen. Read, then type.

[Sandy]

[Ed Pettibone]

[Sandy]

It wasn't a poll to determine theology, Ed. It was a denomination determining its leadership. There were several events and issues prior to the conservative resurgence that had caused concern and raised the awareness of people in the pew to some of the issues. The conservatives simply pointed out what they saw as the root of the problem, and laid out a means of making changes.

I'm not surprised that Kell had trouble finding contributors. There just aren't that many people out there who fall into the category of writer he was looking for. The SBC never really "split." CBF is very small by comparison, even if you still accept the 1,800 church figure, and most of those churches are still ddually affiliated with the SBC. Not all of his contributors have been "exiled," either, in fact there are several that wouldn't necessarily fit that category. Wesley Shotwell, with whom I was acquainted in Texas, pastors a dually affiliated church, and has his fingers in almost as many denominational pies as George Mason.

[Ed Pettibone]

[Sandy]

[Ed Pettibone]

Ed; Sandy when you write " Over the years, the lock down that moderate leaders had on the convention, controlled by a very tight and exclusive group of individuals, was supported by a small group of churches which regularly participated in the convention. The Conservative Resurgence activated a "silent majority," to use a cliche, "Awakened a sleeping giant" that was dissatisfied with the way things had developed in recent decades, and pointed to the way to make a change, and an increasingly large number of churches participated as the message resonated with them." You are simply regurgitating the Standard ultraconservative unsubstantiated boilerplate that has circulated for years "

I not only attended SBC conventions during the take over, I attended a few prior to 79 In fact Conservative W.A Criswell was President at my first. K. Owen White another conservative had been president earlier in the decade.

Thanks for the reminder of Aaron Weavers comment that he had "heard" that Kell had some difficulty finding contributors. As "information" that is rather shallow. I hear a lot of stuff, read a lot of stuff some is accurate and a lot is pure speculation. Had Aaron said that he knew that Dr. Kell had encountered a problem finding contributors it would probably made more of an impression on me.

And Sandy I an having great difficulty trying to understand you statement that "The fact that there's been no split, and that virtually all of those churches and individuals who were part of the "moderate" faction in the convention during the controversy are represented wholly by CBF and AofB is evidence of the fact." Keep in mind I agree that there has been no real split. However I have no idea what you want to convey with " virtually all of those churches and individuals who were part of the 'moderate' faction in the convention during the controversy are represented wholly by CBF and AofB is evidence of the fact." Your very use of "faction" seems to support the idea of a split.

[wesleyshotwell]

Today, for the first time in a LONG time I had a few moments free and decided to look at BaptistLife. Sorry to get in late to the discussion.

To assuage Ed's worry I have not fallen off the face of the earth (as mentioned above) just caught up in life and work.

I have found the discussion about Exiled Generations very interesting. In the other line of posts about this topic I was amused that Sandy was whining about my whining. I was also amused (and I am assuming he was referring to me among others) that my dad had a powerful high paying job with the denomination. He was well known in Baptist Religious education circles because of the nature of his job at the Sunday School Board (now LifeWay), but I assure you it was neither powerful or high paying. In fact, he took quite a pay cut when he left the local church to work there.

As for whining: I didn't think I was whining, but if Sandy perceives it as whining I guess he is entitled to his opinion. I was just telling it like I saw it at the time. But, I guess a little whining doesn't hurt anyone.

Thanks for letting me back in.

Wesley Shotwell

[Ed Pettibone]

Ed: Wesley, I am glad to know that you are still with us on this earth.

[Stephen Fox]

http://jsreligion.org/issues/vol17/Levens.html