Same-Sex Marriage Day in AL

[William Thornton]

need a new topic for the kgb city and the beleaguered church

[KeithE]

[KeithE]

Back to WHBC, I do not plan to report on each and every significant event/opinion expressed etc going on. It would take too long and I know that too many people in our church are bothered by publicity surrounding the event (and BL is a form of publicity).

The vote is next Monday night (barring another “heavy precipitation event”). Two families - 6 people (including one Baptist minister serving in an interim ministry function) have joined the church and 7 people have quit over this issue. There has been meetings for people to speak their piece (and total peace has not been reached). I find it all fascinating but I resist telling you about it all.

[Sandy]

[Dave Roberts]

[Tim Bonney]

[KeithE]

Well the vote last night was 74 against us and 5 for us. That was expected.



It now appears 11 people have left the church and we have got 8 new members (at least 6 of those were due to our free “publicity” about these events) and 3 young children not joining yet. Lost 11 gained 11. One other couple (good friends of good friends and a Bridge player!) is considering joining just because they support Ellin - they are Methodist now and very progressive community-wise. Overall I’d say the church has been energized with a small minority (about 30 people or 10%) that say they are “hurt” but plan to stay. And many people have talked more with each other because of the hullabaloo.

[Tim Bonney]

Keith,

Congratulations on your church's dismissal from an Association who believes that autonomy primarily means the power to kick out your sisters and brothers. Y'all can easily do better.

Your gains and losses of membership remind me that there are both costs and rewards to taking a stand. But those who always predict doom when a church takes a tough stand are usually proven wrong. There are many people who also appreciate a church that can stand up for what it believes and stand up for its clergy.

[Sandy]

[linda]

I apologize that I keep jumping in and out of the conversation as family pressures allow.

My son does have dna testing that shows his inability to control his impulses. And there is plenty of research on bipolar hypersexual acting out during the manic phase. In fact, I believe there is more research on his constellation of mental illness and sexual behavior than has been done to date on homosexual behavior. All of which leads to the question "what does biology matter?" That is, are right and wrong behavior determined by genetics? Be careful, because if we decide someone "gets" to do "something" because it is biologically their nature, what will we do when and if we discover murder to be genetically driven?

I'm not impressed that gay people may feel insulted when their proclivities are compared to adultery, polygamy, bestiality, or any other sex act generally considered sin.

But then, I don't get impressed when someone brags how they cheated the irs, or deceived their boss when they called in sick, etc.

Lying is lying, stealing is stealing, and sexual sin is sexual sin. I readily agree none of us likes to have whatever sins we are in bondage to pointed out as sins. We are all past masters of rationalizing and justifying our behavior. Nor do I see gay sex as somehow a sin far worse than any other sin.

What I do say is that it is very clear from the Bible--and please don't tell me I'm just not educated enough to know better, as you might be fooled--that gay sex is sin. Just like my sins.

And I will be eternally grateful that someone loved me enough to tell me the truth, not what I wanted to hear but the hard truth, so I could see my need for a Savior.

[KeithE]

[KeithE]

[Tim Bonney]

[Tim Bonney]

[William Thornton]

I'm not interested in going through this again but the approach to gay issues through reworking greek and hebrew vocabulary is not well founded. Timothy is very diplomatic with Linda but is in the neighborhood of arguing from claimed expertise. If one wants the Bible not to say what has been universally accepted for all these centuries the better route is to deny inspiration or similar.

[Tim Bonney]

[KeithE]

[Ed Pettibone]

[Sandy]

[Haruo]

Association may be a type of marriage, in the typological sense, and so what happened may run counter to Jesus' clear teachings on divorce.

[Tim Bonney]

[Tim Bonney]

In the discussion of education, I become concerned any time a Christian (lay or clergy) argues against the detailed and careful study of scripture because the conclusion the study came to leads to a different conclusion than they believe, heard from their preacher, or that their denomination teaches.

If I said you can't really understand the Bible without being able to read it I hope that no one would disagree with me. Yet that is about education. Certainly it is debatable how much education we need to understand parts of the Bible. But Christians do themselves no favor with an appeal to knowing less being better.

[KeithE]

Found out today there were a lot people at Monday night’s Exec Board meeting that could have but did not vote. Each church was allotted 2 votes.

Interesting Huntsville Times paper this morning for me.

[Haruo]

[Ed Pettibone]