Driscoll Resigns

[Haruo]

Top story on the front page of the Seattle Times yesterday: -267 comments as of this posting.

[Ed Pettibone]

[William Thornton]

I'm afraid this is not the normal resignation. There is a boatload of problems.

[Sandy]

I will certainly be in prayer for the many members of the church who will face disillusionment and deep disappointment. The Bible warns about "placing your trust in princes," a phrase that pops into my mind frequently when mega-church pastors resign when there are problems, or when they've failed. Most big congregations are build around the personality and preaching style of their lead pastor, not built as bodies of Christ by the Holy Spirit, and this is an inevitable result. I feel very sorry for people whose spiritual life is tied to the preaching ministry of the pastor of this church.

[Mrs Haruo]

I have been invited to so many events at "Megas" over the years and come away with a "this is too good to be true" feeling. Or known people who weren't terribly bright who referred to "Our Pastor" where I could hear the capitol letters. The bigger the billboard, the more people hurt when the rug gets pulled out from under the throne. Unfortunately, I think too many people who follow such authoritative people are looking for easy answers and glad to let someone else do their thinking for them. In a part of the country where a LOT of people have little interest in "organized religion", this situation won't help witness efforts of other churches.

[Chris]

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/15/us/drisco ... index.html

[Ed Pettibone]

[Tim Bonney]

[Sandy]

Does Mars Hill survive this? And if it does, or doesn't, is this a predictor of what can happen in other mega churches that are wrapped around their pastor as tightly as Mars Hill?

[Tim Bonney]

[William Thornton]

[Haruo]

Including both their original (Ballard) location (including their corporate offices)

Former Ernst Hardware Store

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and their University District one, which is the old University Baptist location, my childhood church (building).

former location of University Baptist, Seattle

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Also the former downtown location in the historic, domed First Methodist building.

Seattle "First Church" old location

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The fourth location I've heard they're trying to sell is in suburban Sammamish. I've never seen that one.

[Tim Bonney]

[William Thornton]

[Ed Pettibone]

[Sandy]

I don't necessarily think they're all "bad' (depending on what that means) though I think that most of them are warehouses of gifted people who are called to serve in the church, but are expected, or relegated to the "sit, listen and give" mentality that most mega-churches develop in their congregations. What I see are people who sit and soak, and who generally have no idea what it means to be the eyes, ears, feet, toes or heart of a local church ministry, using their gifts to serve.

I'd venture to guess that among SBC mega-churches, the transfer of membership between them at various times in their ministry represents a significant part of their growth. I know that in Houston, trading members is a regular occurrence between First and Second Baptist, with the pastor introducing the new members to the congregation as having come by promise of letter from a "sister Southern Baptist church." Lakewood has been in that mix as well, since they opened their new location in Greenway Plaza, central to the upper middle class Anglo Saxon Protestant population of the city and metro area, First and Second have ebbed as Lakewood expanded. Now, as I understand it, Lakewood is in a pretty significant downward spiral, and First and Second are benefitting.

Having grown up in Southern Baptist churches, where 20% of the people do 80% of the work, and 10% of the people give 90% of the money, I am theologically convinced that churches, as bodies of Christ, were never intended to get bigger than the courtyard of the typical Greek or Jewish home where they met, and that the intention was equal sacrifice in terms of work time and giving. There are several indications in the New Testament that have convinced me of this. I believe Ed Stetzer's research still shows that the bulk of evangelism in the SBC is taking place in the churches that average 120 or fewer in attendance on Sunday, where there is a much lower baptism to membership ratio than in the mega churches. The Koreans have discovered that having a lot of people under the banner of one church is effective only if the congregation is divided up into small units that fit in living rooms. I don't think the Biblical evidence is conclusive, but if you follow the statistical pattern out, both inside and outside of denominations, the churches are getting bigger, but the total number of Christians is shrinking, at least in this country, substantially. "Church growth" now is defined by how many people you can get into your building from another church somewhere else.

Like William, I don't know of very many mega churches that don't have celebrity pastors, or pastors who think they're celebrities.

[Tim Bonney]

[Tim Bonney]

[William Thornton]

There are about 175 SBC affiliated megachurches.

[Jerry_B]

Without Driscoll saying anything to offer more clarity, it looks like he resigned instead of facing the findings of the investigating board.

[Haruo]

Well, he did say the recent past had been unhealthy and even possibly physically unsafe for his family.

[Tim Bonney]

[Sandy]

[William Thornton]

[Haruo]

What is the overall average, and what is the percentage change over five years for those churches that have been around for that long.