Romans 1 & 2

[KeithE]

Came across which has an interesting grammatical take on Pauls’ view of homosexuality and those who stand in harsh judgment against sin in general. Read it all, but the take away is that Romans 1:18-32 is a list of sins that “they” (Gentiles w/o the law) do and Romans 2:1 changes to a vocative voice speaking to “you” (Paul’s intended audience). Taken in that light, the main Pauline message is to not judge others. Yeah there are lot of other sins that many Gentiles are guilty of (homosexuality being one of many), but that is an aside to Paul’s main teaching which is to not judge others. Read Romans 1:18-23, 2:1, and 2:12-16 carefully.

Personally I take the law written on my heart more than contemporary do’s and don’ts or any written attempt at ethical instruction(s). And I take very seriously Jesus condemnation of Pharisaic ethical judgmentalism and Romans 2:1.

[William Thornton]

[Ed Pettibone]

Ed: One thing worse than a Fundamentalist is a former Fundamentalist. Anyone here know any thing about this , former journalist, former Fundamentalist, now member of the UCC, working on a Ph.D. somewhere, Don Burrows?

And who is Calvin Porter?

I find it interesting that the argument presented is based on Pauls writing in Greek in Romans but the illustration for the story is of a papyrus with Hebrew writing.

[KeithE]

[William Thornton]

Since Keith "cannot believe that God gives up on anyone" he welcomes any possible method of avoiding the plain meaning of the passage. Perhaps the problem is found in coming to a passage already believing what it cannot say.

If there is a hell, I don't recall if Keith so believes, then it is impossible to anchor ones view of God on the idea that God's nature means he will never give up on fallen humanity.

I might go ahead and say that the words of Scripture take precedence over whatever Keith concludes is the law written on his heart.

Most commentators would not land where the PhD candidate does in his interpretation. Nice try, though. It seems obvious that the point is to get a cheap 'gotcha' with those who accept the traditional interpretation of R1.

[Lou]

[Ed Pettibone]

Keith writes: "And Ed can ask for help in downplaying Don Burrows and Calvin Porter if that is what he wants to do; but I’ll not help in that endeavor."

Ed: Where am I down playing Burrows or Potter? I simply do not know who they are or any thing of their expertise. And given you response it appears that you don't know mush about them either.

[KeithE]

[KeithE]

[KeithE]

[Haruo]

I enlarged the image 300% and still can't tell for sure which alphabet it's in (let alone what language), but -- unless the image has been flipped horizontally -- the lines begin on the left and end on the right (i.e. right margin is more ragged) which argues for Greek. Ed, what makes you think it's Hebrew? I see letters which individually look like here Hebrew (lamed; yodh) and there Greek (lambda; theta). If I had run into this image in isolation, and had been asked to guess its language, I'd have said Coptic.

[William Thornton]

The caption reads, "Photo: Papyrus codex of the Pauline Epistles, Chester Beatty Library"

It is clearly Greek; however, since my mod lib friends are non-inerrantists for whom anything reaching to the nonextant autographs is irrelevant, it matters little if the source is Greek, Hebrew. Aramaic, Ugaritic, or Ebonic.

[KeithE]

[KeithE]

[Haruo]

[William Thornton]

[Ed Pettibone]

[William Thornton]

Google "Chester Beatty papyrus" check the images and you will see the same photo. Enlarge it. It's koine greek. The caption was in the article linked.

I'll not attempt to explain everything to you Ed.

[Stephen Fox]

In Georgia before he throws in the towel and says Depart From Me, I never Knew you!

Charles Marsh has a new bio of Bonhoeffer

and Molly Worthen's book with a chapter on the fundamentalist takeover of the SBC go begging for Thornton's attention, even his blog. I hope, I pray he reads both soon.

[Ed Pettibone]

Back to the topic and ignore Fox's plea for attention.

[William Thornton]

[Ed Pettibone]

for William