My next church

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Re: My next church

Postby Haruo » Wed May 01, 2019 1:57 pm

Chris wrote:
Sandy wrote: North Riverside Baptist Church. Then it dawned on me that might be the church he attends now.

If you're interested in crossing denominational lines, Colony Friends Church is in your area.


Indeed, North Riverside was my church until yesterday. I have visited Colony Friends church (about 2 miles from my home) previously,. May visit again.

A Friends Church with a real organ?
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Re: My next church

Postby Tim Bonney » Wed May 01, 2019 2:15 pm

Rvaughn wrote:
Tim Bonney wrote:I have no idea what a "tucking comb" is.
There is a link in the article to one I imagined might make a fine musical instrument. The one's I've seen women use in more recent times look something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Honbay-Different-Color-Plastic-Accessory/dp/B075D7R5HD/


Interesting. Musical inventiveness for sure.
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Re: My next church

Postby Sandy » Fri May 03, 2019 8:41 am

Haruo wrote: A Friends Church with a real organ?


https://www.facebook.com/EFCER.org/

Check out the video with the kids choir. Sounds like they're being accompanied by an organ.

The Friends church, aka Quaker Meeting I attended in Pennsylvania the last year I lived there used a guitar and keyboard. It was an unprogrammed meeting, so if there was music during worship it was acapella, but prior to worship there was a "gathering" during which there was music and a Bible study, and they used the instruments.
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Re: My next church

Postby Chris » Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:43 pm

James wrote:Chris, we, Hampton Baptist Church, meet all of your criteria. That being said we are not without problems.

We not only use a hymnal, Baptist Hymnal 1991. We use all of it except the contemporary Christian hymns. Our choir is quite good. We approach the Bible with open minds. Our point of view is that the Bible should lead us to our theology. We do not believe that our theology should govern what we believe about the Bible. This is why we accept homosexuals in our membership. One couple, good friends of mine, was married in our sanctuary.



I tentatvely plan to visit HBC this weekend.
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Re: My next church

Postby Haruo » Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:06 pm

What have you found so far, Chris?
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Re: My next church

Postby Haruo » Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:08 pm

And James, if you see this, I've tried several times without success to get through to you by phone to get your address.
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Re: My next church

Postby linda » Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:57 pm

We finally found a church very close to our home that preaches the gospel, not whatever the flavor of the month/top selling book of the year brand. Music is from the hymnal (yes, there are new as well as older songs there!) but not done manipulatively. Amazing what happens when the praise team is moved to the back instead of the front. I suppose we are a bit stodgy and stuffy. HOWEVER our balance of children/teens/young adults/middle aged/ senior adults closely matches our village, which I believe is quite healthy. Lives are changed here. Not as many walk the aisle as often as over at get jiggy church (sorry, snide senior moment) but there actually are quite a few every month. And did I mention, lives are changed? Apparently the message is getting across.

We have purposely turned away from using manipulation to get "decisions." Our job is get the gospel out. His job is convicting of sin, leading to repentance, and to belief in Jesus for forgiveness of sins.

It is actually a breath of fresh air not to be under constant assault of "why don't we" and "you don't do enough" etc and rather hear sermons about who He was and is, what He did and does, and then step back.

We do not need hired bands, fancy supplies, or marketing gurus. Just preaching the truth is very effective.

I pray all on a search for a church home are as blessed as we have been!
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Re: My next church

Postby Haruo » Sun Oct 06, 2019 3:17 pm

linda wrote:We finally found a church very close to our home that preaches the gospel,...

I pray all on a search for a church home are as blessed as we have been!

Glad to hear of it, Linda. Can you name the church and the town so if we're in the area we can drop in and see for ourselves?
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Re: My next church

Postby Chris » Sun Oct 06, 2019 7:30 pm

linda wrote:I pray all on a search for a church home are as blessed as we have been!

Thanks, Linda. I have narrowed my search to 2 churches.
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Re: My next church

Postby Tim Bonney » Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:06 am

Chris wrote:My church (of 17 years) will hold its last service this weekend, and will dispose of its assets over the next two months. Already, well-intentioned people are telling me where I should next go to church. With due respect, I think God and I can figure this out OK. My next church will have an organ and a choir. People will sing from a hymnal that shows all four parts. It will not have a drop-down screen, powerpoint, a praise band, a drum cage, nor a minister who calls himself “Pastor Bob” (or any other handle with no last name).


I am glad you have narrowed down your search to two churches. I'll be honest, you'd have a heck of a time meeting your listed criteria in my community. There are very few choices in my town where you would find a church that exclusively sings hymns, uses the organ, has a choir and doesn't use modern technology in worship. But then our population is only 15,000. So you might have better luck in your community.

Would you be ok with a church that had organ, choir and hymns but projected the hymn words on the screen (while still having hymnals in the pews?)

I don't understand the problem with the pastor being called "Pastor Bob" as long as his name is indeed Bob. What is that about?
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Re: My next church

Postby Chris » Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:52 am

Tim Bonney wrote:
Chris wrote:

Would you be ok with a church that had organ, choir and hymns but projected the hymn words on the screen (while still having hymnals in the pews?)
It seems I am going to have to accept that. I think the use of screen was instigated by Pentacostals, and that's why I dislike them.

I don't understand the problem with the pastor being called "Pastor Bob" as long as his name is indeed Bob. What is that about?


Childrfen should address their elders (especially clergy) as "Dr. Jones" or "Mr. Jones". Children should not be on first name terms with their pastors.
Also "Pastor Bob" is something else I tie to Pentacostalism. Adults can call him "Bob".
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Re: My next church

Postby Tim Bonney » Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:58 am

Chris wrote:Childrfen should address their elders (especially clergy) as "Dr. Jones" or "Mr. Jones". Children should not be on first name terms with their pastors.
Also "Pastor Bob" is something else I tie to Pentacostalism. Adults can call him "Bob".


You should also tie it to Methodism as well. "Pastor" in the UMC is the official disciplinary title for clergy that are under the appointment by a Bishop. That takes precedent over "Rev.", "Dr." or "Mr." We rarely use Rev. and its considered a bit pretentious among many Methodists for the pastor at church to use "Dr." in that academic degrees make someone no more ordained by the church than someone with different academic degrees.

So "Pastor Tim Bonney" is my correct official title in the UMC. Or, (though seldom used outside of Annual Conference meetings) Elder Tim Bonney. Adults are also welcome just to call me Tim. Though many Methodists, as a sign of respect for the office, insist on calling me Pastor Tim.

I personally have no problem with children calling me Pastor Tim. When it comes to children and youth I want to be approachable.
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Re: My next church

Postby Sandy » Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:15 pm

Tim Bonney wrote:
Chris wrote:My church (of 17 years) will hold its last service this weekend, and will dispose of its assets over the next two months. Already, well-intentioned people are telling me where I should next go to church. With due respect, I think God and I can figure this out OK. My next church will have an organ and a choir. People will sing from a hymnal that shows all four parts. It will not have a drop-down screen, powerpoint, a praise band, a drum cage, nor a minister who calls himself “Pastor Bob” (or any other handle with no last name).


I am glad you have narrowed down your search to two churches. I'll be honest, you'd have a heck of a time meeting your listed criteria in my community. There are very few choices in my town where you would find a church that exclusively sings hymns, uses the organ, has a choir and doesn't use modern technology in worship. But then our population is only 15,000. So you might have better luck in your community.

Would you be ok with a church that had organ, choir and hymns but projected the hymn words on the screen (while still having hymnals in the pews?)

I don't understand the problem with the pastor being called "Pastor Bob" as long as his name is indeed Bob. What is that about?


My job leads to a visit every now and then to another congregation in the area. So far, none I've visited used an organ or hymnal. Most have been pretty standard with a praise band featuring a keyboard, guitar, bass and drum and three or four singers with well mixed and adjusted mics. One small storefront Pentecostal church was pretty lively, around 80 people and sang in both English and Spanish with a very loud praise band. The Evangelical Polish church I attended was quieter, but pretty typical contemporary, with a guitar, keyboard, drums and mostly your standard, K-Love songs. There's a large UCC congregation about 10 blocks north that I might venture inside one day, it looks like it might be your traditional pipe organ and choir type church.

Timothy is about five hours west of me, might drop in there some Sunday for a visit.
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Re: My next church

Postby Tim Bonney » Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:08 pm

Sandy wrote:Timothy is about five hours west of me, might drop in there some Sunday for a visit.


It would be fun to meet you Sandy!

Like your area, most churches here are doing some form of blended or contemporary worship with a standard praise band. My church does have a traditional service with pipe organ and hymnals. But even there we occasionally use video for announcements or promotion of up coming event, etc. And they call me "Pastor Tim" so I don't believe we'd fit Chris' criteria.

None of the universities in the area that used to have organ programs are teaching organ any longer. If I were hunting for a church with what Chris is looking for I'd need to drive into Des Moines. Even there the choice list would be small. I can think of one or two Baptist churches, one UCC church and a few Episcopal churches in the area that might fit what he is looking for.

My church has a small traditional service that runs about 30-40 people. (The other services run 125-150 each.) The age demographic is such that, left to itself without us attempting to change it or remove it, the traditional service will likely not survive another 5 years. Its hard enough to do worship for 30 people in a room that holds 300+ right now as it is.

All that is to say, among Methodists and Baptists I'm not sure what Chris is looking for will exist much longer in most places.
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Re: My next church

Postby Haruo » Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:01 pm

Fremont Baptist uses a hymnal but also projects the words on the wall. We have an organ but no organist. Our average Sunday attendance is about 25. We are looking for a pastor. We have a family band and a pianist for accompanists, and sometimes the band leads a well-known closing hymn a cappella. The band generally has three to five members, playing two or three guitars and sometimes a banjo. No percussion, generally.

Last Sunday, the first for our new interim minister Jeff Barker, also marked the first time I can recall, in the 28+ years I've been there, that we sang "My faith looks up to thee". To my surprise, it went well and I found it moving.

Rev. Jeff Barker:
Image
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Re: My next church

Postby Chris » Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:07 pm

Tim Bonney wrote:All that is to say, among Methodists and Baptists I'm not sure what Chris is looking for will exist much longer in most places.

When that happens, I will "drop out". I will not attend contemporary service.
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Re: My next church

Postby Sandy » Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:04 pm

Timothy Bonney wrote: All that is to say, among Methodists and Baptists I'm not sure what Chris is looking for will exist much longer in most places.


The last church where I served in Houston had both a contemporary service and a "traditional" service that was more of a gospel style than a pipe organ and choir style. We had a choir for the traditional service but they sang mostly gospel, never anything classical or traditional. And we had a Gallanti organ which is electric but sounds like a pipe, but hardly used it in favor of a Hammond with vibrato. When we left in 2010, the attendance was about 150 in contemporary worship and 100 in the traditional service. Since then there have been a lot of funerals and a lot of departures. The pastor who came just before I left didn't really seem to invest in much more than his preaching and combined the two services into one "blended" style which means piano, organ and hymns with a couple of 80's era choruses thrown in. Pretty much the younger people and families the church reached when it did contemporary worship and home groups have all gone elsewhere, leaving the older people to decide at some point in the not too distant future who is going to turn the lights off. They've already closed their large 800 seat sanctuary in favor of a smaller venue for church services.

The other Houston congregation where we were members for 10 years, South Main, is still a pretty steady church, though it also has a high percentage of older members, but the people it has attracted are also used to a high church style of worship with a more classical music approach. The pipe organ is the centerpiece of worship along with a robed choir. They'll survive, though I don't think they will ever see the kind of numbers they did under Kenneth Chafin. They are one of just a half dozen moderate Baptist congregations in the Houston area and there are enough people who live there to at least keep the attendance from dropping, though it is not growing either. But we're down to being able to name the Baptist churches and cities where they are located that still do traditional style worship. And most of them are declining in attendance fairly quickly.
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Re: My next church

Postby Tim Bonney » Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:48 pm

Chris wrote:When that happens, I will "drop out". I will not attend contemporary service.


That makes me sad.

Chris, part of the history of First UMC of Cedar Falls, where I was the Associate Pastor in 2010-2012 was that in its early founding in the 1800s was that when the church started a choir half the congregation walked out because the choir sang music that wasn't out of the psalms only, They called it "promiscuous singing."

I'd hate to have to explain to Jesus that I quit attending his church to worship him because they didn't have a choir or hymnals.
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Re: My next church

Postby Haruo » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:04 pm

Tim Bonney wrote:... in its early founding in the 1800s ... when [First UMC of Cedar Falls] started a choir half the congregation walked out because the choir sang music that wasn't out of the psalms only, They called it "promiscuous singing."

I'd hate to have to explain to Jesus that I quit attending his church to worship him because they didn't have a choir or hymnals.

Was Cedar Falls a Methodist church at that time. That strikes.me as a bizarre position for Wesleyans to hew to. Calvinists, sure, but not Wesleyans on a Psalms-only tear, surely!
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Re: My next church

Postby Tim Bonney » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:35 pm

Haruo wrote:a Methodist church at that time. That strikes.me as a bizarre position for Wesleyans to hew to. Calvinists, sure, but not Wesleyans on a Psalms-only tear, surely!


Yes, It was a Methodist Episcopal Church. Choirs were were considered a modern innovation as were not scriptural based anthems. Basically the church was upset by the church deciding to start a “contemporary” worship experience by adding a choir.
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Re: My next church

Postby JE Pettibone » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:51 pm

Tim Bonney wrote:
Chris wrote:When that happens, I will "drop out". I will not attend contemporary service.


That makes me sad.

Chris, part of the history of First UMC of Cedar Falls, where I was the Associate Pastor in 2010-2012 was that in its early founding in the 1800s was that when the church started a choir half the congregation walked out because the choir sang music that wasn't out of the psalms only, They called it "promiscuous singing."

I'd hate to have to explain to Jesus that I quit attending his church to worship him because they didn't have a choir or hymnals.


Ed: You need a church to worship Jesus? I do agree that a choir and hymnals are nice trimmings for a church, but not a requisite to worship.
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Re: My next church

Postby Tim Bonney » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:12 pm

JE Pettibone wrote:Ed: You need a church to worship Jesus? I do agree that a choir and hymnals are nice trimmings for a church, but not a requisite to worship.


Ed I don’t think you need a particular church organization to worship Jesus. But I don’t think Jesus intended to Christians to be solitary. I believe Christ intended to create individual Christians but also for Christians to worship, serve and minister together. And I believe that is what the first Christians in the upper room believed.
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Re: My next church

Postby Haruo » Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:28 am

Tim Bonney wrote:
Haruo wrote:a Methodist church at that time. That strikes.me as a bizarre position for Wesleyans to hew to. Calvinists, sure, but not Wesleyans on a Psalms-only tear, surely!


Yes, It was a Methodist Episcopal Church. Choirs were were considered a modern innovation as were not scriptural based anthems. Basically the church was upset by the church deciding to start a “contemporary” worship experience by adding a choir.

Okay, so it was promiscuity in the *anthem* department they objected to. They didn't balk (I hope!) at singing Watts and Wesley hymns congregationally, the way a lot of Presbyterians and some Baptists did...
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Re: My next church

Postby Chris » Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:19 pm

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Re: My next church

Postby Tim Bonney » Sun Oct 13, 2019 4:11 pm

Haruo wrote:Yes, It was a Methodist Episcopal Church. Choirs were were considered a modern innovation as were not scriptural based anthems. Basically the church was upset by the church deciding to start a “contemporary” worship experience by adding a choir.

Okay, so it was promiscuity in the *anthem* department they objected to. They didn't balk (I hope!) at singing Watts and Wesley hymns congregationally, the way a lot of Presbyterians and some Baptists did...[/quote]

The two problems, as best I remember from the account, was it being a choir and them singing music not from the Methodist approved music or the psalms.

Choirs were the cool new contemporary thing at that time. :-)
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