Al Mohler Takes On "Liberal" Mega Chuches

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Al Mohler Takes On "Liberal" Mega Chuches

Postby Gene Scarborough » Wed May 02, 2012 11:37 am

Mohler is shooting off his mouth again in convoluted terms:

http://www.albertmohler.com/2012/05/01/is-the-megachurch-the-new-liberalism/

A shot now reverberating around the evangelical world was fired by Atlanta megachurch pastor Andy Stanley in recent days. Preaching at North Point Community Church, in a sermon series known as “Christian,” Stanley preached a message titled “When Gracie Met Truthy” on April 15, 2012. With reference to John 1:14, Stanley described the challenge of affirming grace and truth in full measure. He spoke of grace and truth as a tension, warning that “if you resolve it, you give up something important.”

The message was insightful and winsome, and Andy Stanley is a master communicator. Early in the message he spoke of homosexuals in attendance, mentioning that some had shared with him that they had come to North Point because they were tired of messages in gay-affirming churches that did nothing but affirm homosexuality.

Then, in the most intense part of his message, Stanley told the congregation an account meant to illustrate his message. He told of a couple with a young daughter who divorced when the wife discovered that the husband was in a sexual relationship with another man. The woman then insisted that her former husband and his gay partner move to another congregation. They did move, but to another North Point location, where they volunteered together as part of a “host team.” The woman later told Andy Stanley that her former husband and his partner were now involved as volunteers in the other congregational location.

The story took a strange turn when Stanley then explained that he had learned that the former husband’s gay partner was still married. Stanley then explained that the partner was actually committing adultery, and that the adultery was incompatible with his service on a host team. Stanley told the two men that they could not serve on the host team so long as the one man was still married. He later told of the former wife’s decision not to live in bitterness, and of her initiative to bring the whole new family structure to a Christmas service. This included the woman, her daughter, her former husband, his gay partner, and his daughter. Stanley celebrated this new “modern family” as an expression of forgiveness.

He concluded by telling of Christ’s death for sinners and told the congregation that Jesus does not condemn them, even if they cannot or do not leave their life of sin.


Mohler is somewhat meandering in his article. He takes on Harry Emerson Fosdick and Norman Vincent Peale as other examples of liberalism in mega churches.

The whole thing is making me laugh at how Mohler now wants to tell every mega church what to do and not do. :lol:
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Re: Al Mohler Takes On "Liberal" Mega Chuches

Postby Ed Pettibone » Wed May 02, 2012 12:39 pm

Ed: Gene, In this piece Isn't Mohler supporting your frequent tirades about mega churches. The last I knew however Al & Mary attend Highview a Mega "ministering" a number of locations in Jefferson county , KY. Al preached at the Fegenbush campus of Highview twice in March. In addition one of his Assistants Dr. Russal Moore, the Dean of the School of Theology and Senior Vice-President for Academic Administration at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. and also serves as a preaching pastor at Highview Baptist Church, where he ministers weekly at the congregation’s Fegenbush location.

While I could probably argue with a few of his points in this item, however his basic question "Is the Megachurch the New Liberalism?" seems to me to be to be valid.

And Gene I am surprised to to learn that you area fan of Andy Stanley. :wink:
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Re: Al Mohler Takes On "Liberal" Mega Chuches

Postby Gene Scarborough » Wed May 02, 2012 3:22 pm

You missed on 2 points:

*not in any way a fan of Andy Stanley
*not buying Al's contention although I am not impressed with the show of the mega

I expect Simon the Magician to show up any Sunday :lol:
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Re: Al Mohler Takes On "Liberal" Mega Chuches

Postby Gene Scarborough » Thu May 03, 2012 7:35 am

Baptist Press is now adding to the Andy Stanley / Al Mohler debate:

http://www.bpnews.net/BPnews.asp?ID=37742

The illustration is problematic, Mohler said, because Stanley seemed to be saying that while adultery is a sin and a barrier to service, homosexuality isn't.

"The inescapable impression left by the account was that the sin of concern was adultery, but not homosexuality," Mohler wrote. "Stanley clearly and repeatedly stressed the sin of adultery, but then left the reality of the homosexual relationship between the two men unaddressed as sin. To the contrary, he seemed to normalize their relationship. They would be allowed to serve on the host team if both were divorced. The moral status of their relationship seemed to be questioned only in terms of adultery, with no moral judgment on their homosexuality."

Through Stanley's assistant, Baptist Press requested an interview with or statement from Stanley, but was told that the illustration should be viewed through the context of the series. Earlier in the same sermon, Stanley mentioned that North Point and its campuses have gay attenders who have left predominantly gay churches.

Stanley said gay attenders tell him: "In the churches that kind of cater to gay couples, I feel like all they do is affirm my gayness. They really don't teach the Bible. And I wanted more Bible teaching. So, Andy, I've come to your church, and to be honest, it's a little scary for me. At times, I feel like I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop. At times, I'm wondering how welcome I am here. But I just don't feel like I'm getting the whole truth at these other churches."


I think Stanley has a good point and outlook. Mohler expects people to bow down and worship at his pontifications. The main problem is how can you be "welcoming" without being "affirming." :)
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Re: Al Mohler Takes On "Liberal" Mega Chuches

Postby Gene Scarborough » Thu May 03, 2012 7:55 am

NC has a Marriage Amendment before us on May 5---the environment if getting filled with hate:

http://www.fayobserver.com/articles/2012/05/02/1174936?sac=fo.local

Harris said he polled his pastoral staff and members of the congregation Tuesday after he started getting telephone calls and abusive emails once his comments went viral.

From within the church, Harris said, "the response was, 'Pastor, we know you didn't mean that.' "

"We know when you're saying something seriously and when were supposed to just understand the intent and not the application,' " Harris said.

Harris said in the sermon that same-sex couples are free to live together.

He argued Tuesday that there was "not an ounce of hate being communicated in that," but said in the sermon that such couples live together "in the most sick and ungodly way."

After listening to the sermon Tuesday, a divinity professor at Campbell University called it "one of the most disappointing and un-Christ-like diatribes I have ever heard."

"I would not dishonor the word 'sermon' by identifying it as such," said Tony Cartledge, who teaches Old Testament at Campbell, a Baptist university in Harnett County.

He noted Berean Baptist appears to be an independent congregation.

"We must be careful not to assume that every Baptist, or even everyone who believes homosexual behavior to be sinful, would endorse Harris' over-the-top promotion of beating gay tendencies out of their children," Cartledge said via email. "At the same time, we have to state unequivocally that Harris' position presents a distorted view of scripture that is completely out of keeping with the teachings of Jesus."


I hope NC voters will defeat the Amendment because we already have state law in place that does not allow for same-sex marriages being legal in NC. This is the product of a Republican Majority in Raleigh promoting their agenda and trying to put it even more strongly in a state with wisdom at the core of government in the past. These are the same Legislators who have gutted the Education Budget in this state and propose a ferry toll here where people who work for regular wages depend on the free ferry to get to work daily at the Phospate Mine 3 miles across the Pamlico River from my side. Otherwise, you have a hour drive with expensive fuel---won't add a Republican comment on the price of fuel these days, but I am sorely tempted!

Are Republicans "conserving" much of anything but hate and division these days? :?
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Re: Al Mohler Takes On "Liberal" Mega Chuches

Postby Ed Pettibone » Sun May 06, 2012 10:46 pm

Gene Scarborough wrote:Baptist Press is now adding to the Andy Stanley / Al Mohler debate:

http://www.bpnews.net/BPnews.asp?ID=37742

The illustration is problematic, Mohler said, because Stanley seemed to be saying that while adultery is a sin and a barrier to service, homosexuality isn't.

"The inescapable impression left by the account was that the sin of concern was adultery, but not homosexuality," Mohler wrote. "Stanley clearly and repeatedly stressed the sin of adultery, but then left the reality of the homosexual relationship between the two men unaddressed as sin. To the contrary, he seemed to normalize their relationship. They would be allowed to serve on the host team if both were divorced. The moral status of their relationship seemed to be questioned only in terms of adultery, with no moral judgment on their homosexuality."

Through Stanley's assistant, Baptist Press requested an interview with or statement from Stanley, but was told that the illustration should be viewed through the context of the series. Earlier in the same sermon, Stanley mentioned that North Point and its campuses have gay attenders who have left predominantly gay churches.

Stanley said gay attenders tell him: "In the churches that kind of cater to gay couples, I feel like all they do is affirm my gayness. They really don't teach the Bible. And I wanted more Bible teaching. So, Andy, I've come to your church, and to be honest, it's a little scary for me. At times, I feel like I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop. At times, I'm wondering how welcome I am here. But I just don't feel like I'm getting the whole truth at these other churches."


I think Stanley has a good point and outlook. Mohler expects people to bow down and worship at his pontifications. The main problem is how can you be "welcoming" without being "affirming". :)


Ed; Gene I would answer you question by saying you can welcome a homosexual without affirming his or her sin in the same way you welcome a drunk and not affirm their drunkenness, or an adulterer and and not affirm adultery, The same way you can welcome a glutton and offer them help in overcoming their sin. The phrase Welcoming and affirming has taken on new meaning since the early 1990's in most baptist churches that use that phrase today.

See: http://www.wabaptists.org/who_we_are/beliefs.htm
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Re: Al Mohler Takes On "Liberal" Mega Chuches

Postby Mrs Haruo » Mon May 07, 2012 12:23 am

Thanks Ed-- I have bookmarked the page from AWAB. That makes it much easier to explain what I believe to others. :D
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Re: Al Mohler Takes On "Liberal" Mega Chuches

Postby Ed Pettibone » Mon May 07, 2012 1:29 am

Mrs Haruo wrote:Thanks Ed-- I have bookmarked the page from AWAB. That makes it much easier to explain what I believe to others. :D


Ed: You are welcome Mrs. H., but you still have a problem because AWAB stuff is based on the assumption that everyone's sexual orientation is inborn and that there s nothing that can be done about it. That ignores the power of our Creator God. It also ignores evidence to the contrary that some of us have observed.
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Re: Al Mohler Takes On "Liberal" Mega Chuches

Postby Mrs Haruo » Mon May 07, 2012 10:45 pm

However it doesnt ignore the fact that I have several friends and relatives who are homosexual, lesbian, bisexual, transexual-- whatever- that have been so badly treated by "church people" in the past that I have a hard time getting them to even come to musical programs in a church. I am not trying to change those I love who have been the way they are for 20 to 40 years and more, just trying to persuade them that not ALL Christians are hateful self-righteous hypocrites.
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Re: Al Mohler Takes On "Liberal" Mega Chuches

Postby Gene Scarborough » Tue May 08, 2012 7:51 am

Glad to know of your friendships. I have some too. This NC Amendment we are considering today is another nail in the coffin of non-acceptance. I hope it is voted down so we can say NC has some common sense! :)
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Re: Al Mohler Takes On "Liberal" Mega Chuches

Postby Mrs Haruo » Tue May 08, 2012 5:12 pm

Not just "friendships" Gene-- I am talking about blood kinfolk. And adopted relatives. I come from a VERY different family from most, and it has been that way for a couple of generations. :)
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Re: Al Mohler Takes On "Liberal" Mega Chuches

Postby Gene Scarborough » Tue May 08, 2012 6:31 pm

All the pious judgements and pompos pronouncements get a re-examination when a close family member announces, "I am gay."
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Re: Al Mohler Takes On "Liberal" Mega Chuches

Postby Timothy Bonney » Wed May 09, 2012 8:52 am

Gene Scarborough wrote:All the pious judgements and pompos pronouncements get a re-examination when a close family member announces, "I am gay."


That works for just about anything Gene. I knew of a pastor who preached really mean sermons about divorced people until his daughter got divorced. "Judge not lest thou be judged..."
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Re: Al Mohler Takes On "Liberal" Mega Chuches

Postby Gene Scarborough » Wed May 09, 2012 12:18 pm

The look of conviction for being mean astounds me each time they get caught by life! :wink:
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Re: Al Mohler Takes On "Liberal" Mega Chuches

Postby Ed Pettibone » Wed May 09, 2012 1:48 pm

Tim Bonney wrote:
Gene Scarborough wrote:All the pious judgements and pompos pronouncements get a re-examination when a close family member announces, "I am gay."


That works for just about anything Gene. I knew of a pastor who preached really mean sermons about divorced people until his daughter got divorced. "Judge not lest thou be judged..."


Ed: And for both Tim & Gene, I have a pastor friend who has a daughter who is a lesbian, yet he believes and preaches that Homosexuality is a sin, and he loves he no less because of her sin. And from observation, I believe she loves him. I have a son who is active in a pagan religion, that does cause a breech in our relationship but that does not mean that I love him less, or that he loves me less.

And I happen to believe that you and others who offer that truncated verse from Mathew need to restudy the meaning of the full passage. (not just the rest of the verse)

See:
This is the verse so many use to try to shame Christians for discerning poor behavior, ethics, morals, and values: the "judge not lest ye be judged" verse. So many times people, mostly teens have emailed us saying "judge not lest you be judged" regarding our analysis reports which reveal to their parents the content of movies. Using only Matt 7:1 is entirely incomplete. This verse is not speaking to not judging at all -- it is speaking to not judging unfairly or any other cheap and selfish way. Read the rest of the story ...

Matt 7:2-5 "For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged [if we judge with an evil heart or dark intent, His judgment of us will reflect it; if we judge nobly with honesty and justice, His judgment of us will reflect that, too], and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you [if we use extremes or exaggerations or other ignoble means, His judgment of us will reflect it and judging with fairness and compassion will garner likewise in His judgment of us]. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye [point out his sins, "minor" in Jesus' example here] and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye [our own sins, even and especially those we will not admit, magnified by our selective blindness]? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' [tell him of his "minor" sins] when all the time there is a plank in your own eye [that there are greater or the same sins in our own lives which we do nothing about or think we are above]? You hypocrite* [pointing out the sins of others while by pretense thinking of ourselves as above sin], first take the plank out of your own eye [sincerely ask the Lord for forgiveness and learn and live the Truth and Light by His Word], and then you will see clearly [be in a righteous position] to remove the speck from your brother's eye [to judge and to help him out of his bondage to sin]." At Galilee, the Decapolis, Jerusalem, Judea and the region across the Jordan, Jesus was talking to the multitudes gathered there after hearing of His message and of His healings to beseech them to not become like the pharisees and hypocrites who think they are above sin.

And, as a FEW examples of His desire for us to judge,

1Cor. 6:2-3 Do you not know that the saints [the saved; Christians] will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life!
Prov. 3:21 My son, preserve sound judgment and discernment, do not let them out of your sight;
John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
Jer. 22:3 Thus saith the LORD; Execute ye judgment and righteousness...
Phil. 1:10 so that you may be able to discern [judge] what is best and may be pure and blameless until the day of Christ...
Phil. 1:7 It is right for me to feel this way about all of you [judge you]...

Matt 7:1 seems to support the allusion that we are not to judge at all if we use small-vision tactics by focusing on only that small piece of the total of what Jesus was saying.

Look at John 7:24. There, Jesus tells us to judge, but to do so righteously. Righteously means to use the Truth of the Word to discern sins and not by appearances only. In 1Cor. 6:2-3 Jesus authorizes us to judge. Judge we must else we could not discern good from bad, proper from improper, righteousness from evil. But judge behavior, not the individual; the deed not the doer; the choice not the chooser. The individual/doer/chooser is accountable for his/her deed/choice, but judge the deed/choice in your judgment. Jesus could see a king in a shepherd boy. And an Apostle in a murderer. So while we must judge one's behavior we must we try to nurture the goodness in an individual: to separate the deed from the doer.

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Re: Al Mohler Takes On "Liberal" Mega Chuches

Postby Gene Scarborough » Wed May 09, 2012 2:19 pm

So what is the problem with accepting a son or daughter "as they are" without judgment?

Let them work through their issues knowing their parent loves and supports them. Good questions and love sure beat jumping on their bones and demanding they be just like you.

My son, at age 15, wanted an earring and we forbade him. We were out of town a few days and my wife's sister who was watching over both our children let him have his way. We came in and he, with smile on face, came up and greeted us. You could not help noticing the piercing and my wife was about to explode.

As soon as we got upstairs I advised her to ignore it and let it pass.

Sure enough, in about 2 weeks our son got tired of the infections and trouble to keep it clean and the ear ring silently disappeared! I was laughing my hind parts off and my wife learned a lesson in life: sometimes they are just trying to piss you off and see how you react! :wink:
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Re: Al Mohler Takes On "Liberal" Mega Chuches

Postby Ed Pettibone » Wed May 09, 2012 3:38 pm

Gene Scarborough wrote:So what is the problem with accepting a son or daughter "as they are" without judgment?

Let them work through their issues knowing their parent loves and supports them. Good questions and love sure beat jumping on their bones and demanding they be just like you.

My son, at age 15, wanted an earring and we forbade him. We were out of town a few days and my wife's sister who was watching over both our children let him have his way. We came in and he, with smile on face, came up and greeted us. You could not help noticing the piercing and my wife was about to explode.

As soon as we got upstairs I advised her to ignore it and let it pass.

Sure enough, in about 2 weeks our son got tired of the infections and trouble to keep it clean and the ear ring silently disappeared! I was laughing my hind parts off and my wife learned a lesson in life: sometimes they are just trying to piss you off and see how you react! :wink:


Ed: And to this day do you have any idea as to why your wife was disturbed by your son's ear ring?
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Re: Al Mohler Takes On "Liberal" Mega Chuches

Postby Gene Scarborough » Wed May 09, 2012 5:12 pm

It was a gay thing----and he is far from gay!!!! :)

All teens want to upset their parents. Smart parent ignore their "stupid stuff."
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Re: Al Mohler Takes On "Liberal" Mega Chuches

Postby Chris » Tue May 15, 2012 11:37 pm

Tim Bonney wrote: I knew of a pastor who preached really mean sermons about divorced people until his daughter got divorced.


Reminds me of a guy who preached mean sermons about divorce...and said that if he ever got divorced, he would leave the Ministry....and then Charles Stanley got divorced......and is still in ministry.
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Re: Al Mohler Takes On "Liberal" Mega Chuches

Postby Chris » Tue May 15, 2012 11:40 pm

Gene Scarborough wrote:Sure enough, in about 2 weeks our son got tired of the infections and trouble to keep it clean and the ear ring silently disappeared! ... sometimes they are just trying to piss you off and see how you react! :wink:


Had it been a tattoo, though, it would still be there.
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Re: Al Mohler Takes On "Liberal" Mega Chuches

Postby Gene Scarborough » Wed May 16, 2012 8:23 am

He got one on a Coast Guard venture---likely a beer hazed bet with his buddies :lol:

Big bulldog on his shoulder and now he has to deal with it. It hurt like heck and he was constantly dabbing it with meds until it healed. That won't disappear on its own and now he has a teen son to get even with him!

I am amazed at the painful and stupid stuff all people seem to do to try and be "cool!" :roll:

My syrupy sweet and ultra-conservative younger sister got her ankle tat as a 40-year-old school teacher = duh!
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