Dealing with Welfare

[Gene Scarborough]

[Ed Pettibone]

Ed: And the post above is form the guy who told told us a few days ago how his grandaddy got out of debt by using government money received for NOT growing cotton.

[Gene Scarborough]

Ed---I thought you would do better than that!!!

My grandaddy took the money and PAID HIS DEBTS AND WENT ON TO TAKE NOT ONE CENT MORE!!!

Vast difference between a "war on poverty" with Title XX----and the reality of 40 years of money spent with no exit from such war!

NOW---let's discuss the issue with some intelligence over stupid nothing comments from the curmudgeon stance.

[KeithE]

I would agree with Gene's redneck friend "Get a Job" attitude, if there were enough jobs to go around. But that is not the case. Companies are taking their factories overseas for cheaper labor rates and tax avoidance. Our information and service economy is increasingly non-labor-intensive.

At this time, government needs to foster more jobs in areas that do require labor and that benefit us all collectively - infrastructure repair/replacement, green energy, education, transportation, inspection of incoming cargo. These prepare us for the future. But at present, the national caretakers (corporations) are focussed on near-term profits and ballooning their own salaries/bonuses/perks and sadly have Congress and free marketeers in their hip pocket.

When enough jobs are available, freeloaders can with integrity be told "Get a Job".

[Tim Bonney]

[Gene Scarborough]

I will share what I observed as one of two representatives for Lee County (SC) as the Title XX decision-making meeting started in the 70's for the 5-county Santee-Wateree area:

We are a blessed nation and it is unconsionable if we make people starve when there is plenty for us, BUT if we ever do anything which makes anyone want to stay on welfare we are doing them no service whatsoever."

I see no reason why public works jobs could not be made available for the same amount spent as with welfare---but with the pride which comes from earning you own way in life! Few people enjoy being demeaned with dependence and nothing to do!

[Tim Bonney]

[Gene Scarborough]

Jesus said, "The poor are with you always."

The staving are not required in the US with our plenty. To have people on WIC weighting 300+ pounds and wanting knee and hip replacements on Medicare is rediculous.

Somewhere is a balance point with common sense applied. Personally, I think the best weight reduction program is produced by hard work just like I do. Even with such, I have my weight problems but enjoy the good thinking time as I do manual work.

Preachers have many problems with weight---and few ever speak of the sin of gluttony. Work avoidance is a poor excuse for taking welfare or churchfare!

Since when are you "poor" if you don't have a TV in each room of the house? Somewhere we need to learn about self-control and a balanced outlook on life. There just might be a new sin called consumption!

[Ed Pettibone]

[Tim Bonney]

[Gene Scarborough]

Gentlemen---

You are welcome to your view based on your experience. Mine is equally based on my experience here in NC / SC / GA. My wife works at a PT office where exactly what I have said is happening = overweight people on welfare requesting joint replacement surgery from Medicare. It is not being granted, but they still are on a fast track to diabetes and physical ailment from simple over-eating.

I pass by any number of shacks where outside sits a luxery car and on the roof sits at dish antenna. Much of poverty is people having no clue as to how to manage their income, whatever it might be.

The FACT is that since the 1970's we have had the program---and people are still finding ways to maximize their use of it over using that creative intelligence (they obviously have) to find a job and do something consructive in a welfare society. The shipping of jobs overseas is not helping our situation either. All of this is being done through misdirection and foolish "do gooding."

I have never enjoyed sitting at a computer endlessly nor reading books all day to get my next sermon. I prefer to move among my congregation and cut my own grass and trim the shrubs at the parsonage I have frequented. Have either of you gotten with your custodian to teach him how to strip down and renew filthy tile floors in your church? I HAVE!

[Tim Bonney]

Gene,

I'm not going to get into an argument about which of us have done more physical work. That is totally off topic. And I don't buy the idea that physical work is more nobel or valuable than other kinds of hard work.

Rather than base all your opinions off of a very small set of personal experiences you might try reading national statistics related to poverty. "My experience is as valid as yours" isn't a good argument for dealing with a national problem. You can't always generalize individual experiences with what is going on in the rest of your state or the nation.

[Gene Scarborough]

Tim---

All work is valuable, whether physical or mental or a combination. It is anyone expecting others to support them when they refuse to work that troubles me. We are rearing a whole generation after a couple of others---of all colors / classes---who expect to sit in A-C and make $60K-up playing with a computer all day and pretending to do much of anything.

I run a small business and can't find people willing to work. I pastored churches and it's hard there to get good custodial help. It's equally hard to get anyone to get out and visit alongside the Pastor. Too many think they hire us to do the work of the church.

Am I making sense now? Jesus said the harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few---this was a problem in his day as well.

[Dave Roberts]

Welfare is a far more complex subject than we have begun to address here. The caricatures can all be found in every town, and we can excuse ourselves with Jesus' quotation about always having the poor. His words, taken in context, were not, IMHO, an excuse not to help them but rather an expression of the greater need of the disciples to appreciate what someone had done for Him out of the openness of their hearts. That context does not excuse us from helping the poor.

The Nutritional Assistance Programs (aka Food Stamps and WIC) have done a lot of good insuring that children are fed and not in school hungry. At the same time, they have been abused, and the programs have lacked the educatioal component necessary to provide for those who are on them. If those on these programs eat steak the week their benefit cards are restocked, then they will be hungry by the last week of their month. I am involved with a local feeding program that provides adult meals each day for those who lack food security. In our community, they probably came close to 12,000 meals provided last year. These meals are not grand meals but are very basic. I see most of the people who come to them, and they are not overweight or dressed in fine clothing or arriving in luxury cars (that are less than 15 years old).

Assistance is often provided also because a number of the people we see not working are unemployable. First, there are those with untreated mental health issues who cannot work together with other people. Give then a shovel, and they may swing it at fellow-workers or bosses. Second, there are those whose criminal history, especially with drugs, makes the undesirable for most employers. Many may have paid their debt to society, but a criminal background check keeps them out of 75% of the workplaces in our community. Third, there are mothers whose childcare costs would exceed what it costs to help them stay home.

Is the system subject to abuse and in need of reforming--of course. Can the abuses be documented? Absolutely! Is it the best of all possible systems? Of course not! Have we devised a way to deal with all the underlying causes of poverty and the failures of our country's families, educational system, and churches? Not yet!

[Gene Scarborough]

Great balancing comment, Dave!

What is my greatest concern is that we seem NOT to be helping people escape the grip of poverty.

Part of that is people making money off the backs of the poor and refusing to pay a wage any working mother can stand and take care of her family. I am aware of some women turning to adult entertainment as the only way to support their children. This is hardly an equitable way for women to make decisions vital to basic existence.

Is part of the real problem simply people getting rich by using other people for their benefit and refusing to pay enough for survival?

It's easy to blame the poor unless you walk in their shoes. This economy is, frankly, make me with my college education and skills in tree care into one of those struggling just to pay his utility bills! I am hardly impressed when a guy like Romney is reporting a 15% tax bracket. In a real way, he robs with a white shirt and sneaky deals putting people out of work instead of increasing their pay for excellence and experience in American production.