A. That's a pretty long and detailed non-response!
B. Most of the works you cite indicate there is homosexuality and some of the dynamics of it. With its growth and research in the last 10 years, new insights are constantly coming out so the future is open on many questions.
C. I think a lot of this has to do more with sexual obsession than which sex and what age a partner is. Those who worship sexual ecstasy are nothing more than another form of idol worship / drug addict. Those who are able to place sex into the perspective God meant it to be can find true joy and peace in human relationships.
D. I don't understand why you can't see a person not condoning the homosexual lifestyle would, nevertheless, be open and tolerent of those who find joy and peace in it. I'm just not going to judge them evil on the surface.
E. I sure love the way--when you are challenged--you put all the proof requirements on your oponent so you can nit-pick it to death while enjoying your same old ways. It is a historical fact that some societies have viewed it positively and others negatively through the ages and into the present. If it were as clear as the OT depicts it, then there would not be the alternatives in other societies.
Ed: A. What sort of detail would you like?
B. Gene in fact all of the works I cited indicate there is homosexuality and some of the dynamics of it. They where cited because you suggested that my offering of a single bible reference meant that I am somehow totally uninformed about homosexuality.
However I do not understand this sentence from you, "With its growth and research in the last 10 years, new insights are constantly coming out so the future is open on many questions." Are you saying that Homosexuality has grown or that research on it has grown? Would you give me an example of the new insights of which you write.
C. Again I have no idea of what point you are attempting to make. what do your comments in C have to do with a discussion of homosexuality? Your meaning may be there but if so I need help finding it.
D. Because Gene , to be open and tolerant of those who find joy and peace in it, is by definition condoning "it". To condone is to overlook, forgive or pardon. (verb).
E. I am glad you " love the way"--when" (I Am) "challenged--" (I) "put all the proof requirements on (my) opponent, because you will therefore love my asking, what societies have viewed homosexuality positively? While I am aware of segments of a few societies that practiced promiscuous homosexuality for their own pleasure and it was tolerated by others but I know of no society where homosexuality was viewed positively.
Now for a reply to Tim.
1. Tim Bonney: I'm still waiting for an answer from Ed as to why he thinks we should legislate a particular religious view of marriage as the law of the land. And I'm still trying to figure out why he is obsessed with this subject. It is a shame we don't have a word for people who apparently have a fear of gay people and/or what they do. You know, some kind of phobia maybe?
2. Ed, what are you afraid is going to happen if Gay people can get married? I'm not saying you have to like it, believe in it, support, it etc. But what are you afraid is going to happen if it isn't outlawed?
Ed: Tim where have I indicated that I think we should legislate a particular religious view of marriage as the law of the land? What "particular religious view" do you believe I have I advocated. And what indication does you have that I am "Obsessed" with the subject. I think a search of the archives would show that you have engaged as much or more than I, in the discussions of the subject on these boards. And I personally do not believe that our Methodist friend is professionally qualified to judge any one as either obsessed or homophobic.
Tim I am not afraid. But I am persuaded that as more and more states modify their existing legislation to accommodate same sex marriage more and more folk will take the position that if the state sanctions marriage between homosexuals , homosexuality is just an alternative lifestyle, and therefore OK. I do not believe it is OK. And as I DID say I do not want my grandchildren and great grand children who live in may parts of the country at great distance from our influences to be duped by the propaganda of the Gay an Lesbian lobby. Like the Executive Secretary of my Denomination (ABC-USA) , I believe the practice of Homosexuality is a SIN. And Tim earlier in this thread you acknowledged that many Christians agree with us. But you have ignored my remarks about we Christians who take this stance not being alone in our opposition. Jews and Muslims and a number of other religions, even those from non Abrahamic origins declare homosexuality to be unacceptable to their God. And large numbers of people with no particular religious alliance also find the practice unacceptable. *** Disclaimer; Before Tim reminds me that while Roy Medley, Tony Campolo and I, plus many in the ABC-USA call the practice of homosexual activity sinful, there are others in our denomination who disagree. *** As indicated Tim and I have had several discussions on the subject. It goes back at least to the 2005 ABC/USA Biennial in Denver where I spoke to a statement of concern on the subject as presented. At that event I was pleasantly surprised at the affirmations of my comments expressed to me personally by many delegates with whom I was non /am not acquainted. The most surprising where from a pastor of a Church in Cincinnati that is welcoming and affirming.
And Tim, while you have questioned my motivation for opposing same sex Marriage, you have yet to explain your own transformation on the subject. It seems obvious that it was not just to conform to you new denomination, as you had made your committed toleration of homosexuality evident long before making that move.
