Cain and Sexual Harrasment Claims

[Gene Scarborough]

Tim---

If "I goofed" makes you happy, the I will say it!

If more solid witness to his past actions continues to convict him, then you have it here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/0 ... 3%7C110546

The plot thickens and we have a story more solid than the Clinton / Lewinsky stuff which distracted us from the real issues for many a month. Ken Star go rich and is now President of Baylor!

So much for political bull in the current environment of hate and non-cooperation!

[Tim Bonney]

Gene I appreciate the "I goofed." But I'm not that concerned about being happy. I'm more concerned that none of us judge a group based on a few messed up individuals.

Thanks for the huffington post link!

[Dave Roberts]

Ed, I admit that my statement about Baptists was provincial relating more to the Southern Baptist context. The ABC has done far better, but it practices less of a radical autonomy of churches than is seen in most of the south. Sexual abuse is not limited to any racial group, and it is the scourge of more church groups than we want to admit. Even the most hierarchical groups like Roman Catholics have not handled situations well. Independent groups outside denominational bounds have no accountability to anyone else, which may leave the field open to even more abusive situations.

Cain seems to have never been in any public position where his past would be vetted thoroughly. I somehow think that his lack of any public office experience leaves a greater hole in his resume than any of the accusations made against him. He has never before faced the scrutiny of being in the public eye.

[Ed Pettibone]

[Gene Scarborough]

Ed---Maybe the first line of you invitation ad should read:

[Gene Scarborough]

CNN gives picture of the religiosity of Rick Perry:



The contrast between Perry and Cain is interesting.

Are they both somwhat harlots and charlitans?

Meanwhile the Roman Catholics put on a face of propriety when they can't seem to control their pedophile priests:



Is this an "interesting day" or not????

[Tim Bonney]

[Dave Roberts]

[Ed Pettibone]

[Lamar Wadsworth]

Sexual misconduct is almost guaranteed to occur any time you have the following three ingredients:
1. The belief that men should be in authority just because they are male and that women should be subordinate just because they are female.
2. A man who wields considerable power.
3. A lack of accountability and checks/balances on said person and his power over others.

This is not so much a black church phenomenon as a "pastor as ruler of the church" phenomenon.

[Stephen Fox]

I was in fast food place last night when latest on Cain and Ms Bialek came on Fox News. Kind of awkward moment as the Black Women preachers and I had just met finished tawking bout the movie the Help. They Said to me God Bless You and I said likewise.
What happnd next was no way to tell politically correctly.
Bialek on screen and all three of us at separate but equal tables were quiet.
Then one of the women, kinda Pentecostically said: "She Lyin; look at the way she dressed....Aint no man gonna put his hand going where she said he was goin and me just sitting there. I'd be showing out long time before that hand got that far."
We all laughed and said friendly parting farewells. Then in came the truckers running a convoy of Dbl wide trailers to Upstate NY came in telling hilarious adventures of coming up the long incline out of California into western Arizona.

[Tim Bonney]

Ed is right that the ABC credentialing doesn't mean an ABC church has to call an ABC credentialed pastor. And some churches even do local ordinations, against the better advice of the ABC. So I don't know how much this is a modification of local church autonomy since it is a voluntary system.

But, while this doesn't greatly effect the autonomy of the local church it does provide a lot more safety for the local church that sticks with credentialed pastors. On the other hand it does indeed effect clergy and churches in ways that may not be obvious. Most uncredentialed pastors will not be called by solid ABC congregations because the system does such a good job of protecting churches from unqualified pastors. There are exceptions. But many ABC churches even have it in their bylaws that they will only call ABC recognized pastors. Generally churches that call pastors outside the system tend to regret it and tend to hurt their ministry and reputation in the ABC because pastors that aren't credentialed are also often not committed to ABC ministry.

Interestingly, I find the ABC credentialing system very similar to the PCUSA system though not as academically stringent.

[Stephen Fox]

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/j ... party.html

[Lamar Wadsworth]

Golden Spur nomination to Br'er Fox for contributing a much-needed new adverb to the English language: "Pentecostically." I am sure that there is an adjectival form as well, "Pentecostical." My mother's oldest brother, Clyo Bailey, was a Pentecostal preacher in these parts for many years. My cousin Eddie Allen--Uncle Clyo's grandson--is now pastor of the First Pentecostal Church at Villa Rica GA. I will have to try out these two new and much-needed words on my Pentecostal kin. I will tell them that they owe a debt of gratitude to Bre'er Fox.

[Stephen Fox]

Dr. Wadsworth:

I have just gotten my hands on Donna Johnson's memoir about the traveling tent preacher Brother Terrell with roots in Villa Rica but peregrinations took him all through Bama through Dekalb County where he founded a mixxed race church to the fairgrounds in Birmingham and a radio engagement where Larry Draper's friend and mine John Killian as a boy learned to impersonate him.
Pentecostically speaking for the Glory of Insight, you must get your hands on this memoir soon as possible.
In the fantastical world that is the water you and I were bathed in, it turns out Ms. Johnson's advisor among others on this project which got favorable reviews in the NY Times is none other than Billy Graham biographer of Rice University, William Martin.
I wish you woulda been at Jack's last night with me. You woulda relished the whole session from the Preachers to the Truck Drivers.
As REM said, Here's a Truck stop instead of St. Peter's.......

[Dave Roberts]

[Gene Scarborough]

As usual----we are straying far away from the basic subject: sexual harassment.

Now we have a 2nd one going at Penn State with their Coach Sandusky. Cain's accusers are growing and talking with 2 ladies coming before the cameras yesterday. Fellow Administrators at Penn State are resigning.

This is a travesty!!!

I thought our society had tightened up on this issue and was learning to treat others with respect---especially in sexual matters.

When accusing children and women get a "you made him / her do it by provoking them" accusation from a celebrity or one in a high place, it appears we are getting worse instead of better!!!!

[Tim Bonney]

[Gene Scarborough]

Latest morning commentary on Penn State abuse: Paterno did what the law required, BUT his failure to do more is a MORAL ISSUE!

I think this whole thing has to do with Christian morals. When asked about the Jewish Law, Jesus simply said it boiled down to "Love the Lord your God and your neighor as yourself."

Is that simple or what?????

Whenever we go to the "ifs / ands / buts" of legal discourse you can rationalize yourself out of most indecent acts with excuses (or highly-paid lawyering)! In my mind, there is NO EXCUSE for failure to walk in the footsteps of Jesus. We all know how Jesus lived and it certainly did not ever involve abuse of another even though he had the high position of Messiah.

I have long taken exception to the Baptist claim that autonomous churches cannot control the personal actions of clergy. We ordain (set aside) people who feel a calling to preach or get elected Deacon. What is the problem with un-ordaining them?

The minister is ordained by some church or association and should be held accountable if one they ordained is a moral failure. I had such a staqff member and contacted his church with the news that he was a pervert and womanizer we had to fire. Sadly, they chose not to do anything---and he ultimately ended up a HMB-approved Chaplain who broke up a family as he seduced the wife and daughter into his leacherous hands. In this case, the HMB clearly knew from my own lips of his indescreations, but approved him anyway! That, for me, is grounds for a lawsuit and I advised the destroyed husband to do just that! Abuse-prone people are always attractive on the surface.

Through the ages we know people have failed morally. It might be debt / sex / cowing to the immorality of church members / etc. There are many kinds of moral failure besides just sexual abuse. God will do the judging and I would fear Him even more than the law or church discipline.

Mocking God is one of the worst sins of the lot!!!! Don't do it!