Social contract

[ET]

[Gene Scarborough]

ET---Why don't you just say that, in your opinion, a philosophical capitalism gives the rich the power to turn the poor and working class into slaves who pay taxes so that the rich have the priviledge of paying NONE!!!!

Neither Keith nor I buy it!!!!!

Enjoy your 401-K destruction at the hands of the lying capitalist investment runners!!!!!!! They, after all, only care about making life better-----------------for THEMSELVES!

[Dave Roberts]

[ET]

[KeithE]

[ET]

[ET]

[KeithE]

[Gene Scarborough]

ET---

What is the problem with using the "screw" word relative to the last 20 years of American economics????

Your example of minimum wage jobs is rediculous. It's fine when you are going through school, but it's not so great when you get a degree and can't find a job!! I know women who strip for a living because the money is there and it's not to be found in corporate America. How do you feel about that problem for women with children they can't possible support outside the welfare system?

I think you speak from an ivory tower of articles and philosophies----with little concern for the growing poor of this country--mostly through no choice of their own!

[KeithE]

[Dave Roberts]

My comment on credit is not that the government should set limits on credit, but there should definitely be more realistic limits on the usurious rates at which credit cards are offered. The poorer you are, the higher your rate. My bank currently pays 0.25% on passbook savings and charges 21.5% on credit cards. It's costing them 0.25% to get money to lend, but they reclaim it back at a rate 86 times higher than what they pay. The other place where the system absolutely takes advantage of poor people is in "payday" and "car title" loans that can go up to 36% interest. If government regulation hasn't failed there, and if Christians have not failed to make our voices heard about taking advantage of the poor, where are we living? Who could stop this abuse of the poor except government regulation of such industries? Of course, they are in be with state and federal legislative branches.

[Tim Bonney]

[Dave Roberts]

[Tim Bonney]

[KeithE]

[Tim Bonney]

[Gene Scarborough]

I see the crux of the economic crisis more in terms of ethics and morals.

In my lifetime the typical corporate approach has become rude and crude---and based on financial sheets alone. A large part of this is the expectations of investors to ALWAYS have significant growth in value. This has been accomplished on paper as creative accounting allows a CEO to claim, "We had this profit last year and I did it so pay me more!"

They come up with marvelous ideas to get rich quick. One of these is to offer "golden parachutes" to the more experienced employees and try to mechanize and downsize in order to maximize profits. It no longer seems to matter about quality or creative thinking so the production gets better.

My wife works in physical therapy and is in an ideal spot to observe that corporation. Over the last few years it is building new buildings / cutting back on number of employees / trying to look good / pushing appearance over quality of healthcare.

Record keeping is a monster and they have spent much money to become paperless. The heart of loss of quality is more highly degreed PT's don't want to take time to keep records straight. It's all about "getting patients through" so we can accomodate more!

The healthcare model being presented is a Doctor / Dentist / Therapist supervises a team of techs who perform the "mundane" duties. In reality, the lower paid associates develop those subtle relationships which just may be the key to successful treatment!

Somewhere there must be a balance of quality and quantity. The power plays in corporate American see no limit to how much money gets paid, sometimes for poorer and lesser quality than we get overseas. Like it or not, just because we are Americans does not mean we have a right to gripe when we don't have a different car to drive each day just to "look good."

[Ed Pettibone]

[ET]

I think it's time I give up these discussions. I've been on this board for going on 4 years or so and had I don't know how many discussions on the proper role of government and it STILL gets implied that I am in some way in favor of a "laissez faire", "unbridled" economy with businesses running amok and free to do whatever they will without any regulation. If after some 4 years of numerous attempts to correct that assertion doesn't clear things up, then it's useless to continue.

[Gene Scarborough]

ET---

I am amazed that you feel you are not making a place for yourself. You certainly are! Just because you have detractors, don't take it so personally.

I, for one, view you as the classic expression of what ails this country right now: Rich getting richer / poor getting poorer / even the average wage-earner not really caring that things could be better if we tried harder.

Hang tight, my brother. While I do not agree with you, you are helping me see the other side far more clearly than I did before meeting up with you.

[ET]

[Dave Roberts]

Ed, I don't always disagree with you as much as you think. I certainly don't think that government is (or has) all the answers to the issues facing our country. There are numerous messes made by government, and there is plenty of blame on both sides of the aisle. My greatest upsets come when conservatives ignore the purposes of this country in "promoting the general welfare" for all citizens. There is an abiding form of class warfare that is being waged. It will continue unless we find ways to rebalance the economic equation.

The loans made to many people in the sub-prime lendings of the late 1990's up through about 2006 were often foolishly done. Bankers knew what was afoot long before the defaults hit, but not all the defaulting loans were created through the sub-prime lending efforts. I have watched neighbors and fellow church members trying to keep homes when downsizing or corporate restructurings sent their jobs overseas or they were caught in the pains of seeing their investments go down the drain in the market crashes. I'm also aware of lots of folks in my generation (baby boomers) who will not be retiring anytime soon because up to 25% or more of their retirement investment (that some have been making since the age of 25 or so) is suddenly gone. Others have found that the pensions promised them have never been fully funded because government allowed companies to postpone or divert the needed funds. Even in the state in which I live, the governor and legislature balanced the state budget last year by postponing necessary contributions to the state retirement system. Now they are talking of increasing the shares required from each employee because they, like much of corporate America, has been allowed to defer or ignore the support promised to workers.

I don't want big government looking over my shoulder every day, nor do I know anyone who does. There are certainly foolish regulations that every politician who wants an issue can find. At the same time, there is a need for meaningful regulations that have teeth in them for those who do the things that are harmful to others.

I am weary of do-nothing government by stalemate when people are hurting and need a government on their side, not just one responding to the whims of large political contributors. Both parties have done enough of that to leave us in the mess we are in for a long time. I reposted a sign on my FB page this week that said, "Politicians and diapers should be changed often, and for the same reason."

[Gene Scarborough]

I think the worst thing about government is that "when it goes in it never comes out!"

We have a few making decisions over use of our money. As usual, a camel is a horse made by a government committee---intended to be useful and sleek, but turning into a monster with every tweek (that actually rhymes!).

Farm subsidies were needed to help us come out of the Depression so what does an "agribusiness" able to borrow 1-5M each year need with government subsidies?

I was on Title XX funds distribution in the Santee-Wateree 5 county district near Sumter. I stated in the beginning that we had some truely hurting people who needed real help. We are blessed and should be compassionate, but not foolish. Anything which made people want to stay on welfare was just another form of slavery.

We are now 5 generations into it and it's time for a review!!!

Same with our constant involvement and spending on foreign wars. Eisenhower (ET should love this) warned against the "military-industrial complex" before JFK was elected. Talk about something needing reviewing!!!

No individual and no government can carelessly spend money we are not taking in (rightly attributed to the rich and corporations paying little or nothing). Spending producing nothing but another sugar-tit to contractors is totally stupid!!!