The Coming Debt Limit Crisis

[Sandy]

The Republicans are cutting their own throats on this whole issue for a couple of reasons. One, they are much more interested in doing damage to President Obama's re-election chances than they are in preventing massive damage to the US economy. Two, the corporate interests which completely control their party don't want to let go of subsidies and tax breaks which are the main reason for the debt in the first place.

Many Democrats are also controlled by corporate interests. The more money government spends, the more of it goes into the pockets of the profiteers and the more it borrows, the more interest the big banking interests collect. We're not borrowing all of this money from China, we're borrowing most of it from Goldman Sachs and Bank of America, among others.

Congress has been mired in partisan gridlock for a couple of decades now. I blame that on conservative radio deejays like Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh, who, for their own benefit, have played on the personal prejudices of their listeners and then use their influence to push the corporate agenda for which they are paid millions, blocking any kind of reasonable give and take, negotiation, or discussion. They've demonized "liberals" and created an "us vs. them" mentality when it comes to politics. It's incredible that in a country that claims an educated population like this one, there are actually people who listen to this garbage, much less allow these bottom feeders to tell them how to vote and what their politics should be. It is a testimony to the sad state of public education in this country that there are people who can't think for themselves when it comes to politics, and even sadder that there are individuals who have been elected to Congress who think their continued service depends on following this agenda.

It might be wise to prepare for some hard times ahead, since it appears the GOP is going to drag the middle class into beggary, and the Democrats aren't going to do anything to stop it.

[Stephen Fox]

When Barrett Duke carrying water for Richard Land carries on like this

http://www.abpnews.com/content/view/6593/53/

And Land himself says this?
http://www.ethicsdaily.com/southern-bap ... -cms-18246

For sure it's a mess. Most indepthpiece at one place I have seen is this which I read this afternoon


http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archive ... -thinking/

I'm hoping folks like Chet Edwards, my Furman Classmate Baron Hill, John Spratt in SC 5th district who was defeated by a Tea Party rascal; Hoping folks like them with righteous anger will mount a rearguard action to hound the Tea Party out of the Congress and hopefully the US can rebound in time from the deep wound they have done to our Great Country.

[KeithE]

[Neil Heath]

I also thought there was a lot of truth in what Sandy has said.

[ET]

[Jim]

I sat though the dear leader’s entire campaign speech last evening, a pathetic bit of fear-mongering designed to do what he thinks he does best – TALK/SCARE people into anything. After 2.5 years, he began the usual way by blaming other folks for his problems. It went downhill after that, mostly stating the obvious, to wit, that the country is in a financial crisis and that he either hasn’t a clue or means to make that crisis eventuate in his idea of government – SOCIALISM. All the networks carried the masterpiece of deception, the mainstream ones because it’s their agenda and Fox because some sense has to be made of his ineptness. I checked them all. He’s made it clear over and over that this ugly subject must not come up in 2012 because it’s an election year. The economy, according to most experts, will still be mostly in the tank then and that’s not what he needs to try to explain while, as noted by him in Berlin in 2008, a different kind of American is running the show. The degree of his petulance is exceeded only by that of his arrogance, which at least the Middle-East leaders from Assad to Qaddafi dis regularly. Making a speech on the economy while spending $1.1 billion March-September to kill Libyans for no reason at all makes him appear slightly bonkers, not to mention that wanton killing is sort of curious.

[David Flick]

[Sandy]

[ET]

[KeithE]

[Stephen Fox]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/27/opini ... an.html?hp

Have the wisest words I have seen to date on this mess

I wish Sandy would say something to Richard Land

[Neil Heath]

Friedman has been very astute in his analysis of things in every book of his so far. I think he's on target again here, but unfortunately, what he says we should have done did not happen. He's also on target about the Tea Party, a misguided group if ever there was one.

[Neil Heath]

Saw this quote on Facebook:

“The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government cannot pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies."
-- Senator Barack H. Obama, March 2006

He's right, and things haven't changed since then.

[Neil Heath]

Here's another good one:

"Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are right." ~ H.L. Mencken

[Sandy]

The Congressional Budget Office keeps pouring cold water on all the plans that are proposed. They tend to be a bit more realistic with the figures of exactly how much the deficit will be reduced by any particular plan.

The Republicans, who do a lot of talking about cutting spending and reducing deficits, really aren't getting serious about doing it. That's something you'd expect from Democrats who want to hang on to their social programs, though they've shown surprising willingness to compromise on a lot of that. The Republicans want to avoid making any cuts at all to corporate welfare, energy subsidies and tax breaks for the wealthiest 1% of Americans. They want to spend unnecessary billions on defense and border security. If this is going to work, the cuts are going to have to be across the board, and corporate America is going to have to at least bear their share of the cost of the government benefits that allow them to do business and make the profits that they earn. They're going to have to help pay for the army that protects their business, the maintenance of the highways, bridges, rail systems and transportation that carries their goods to market, and, because most of them won't ante up, the retirement and medical care of the employees who enable them to stuff their pockets with cash. They're also going to have to be willing to help pay for the education system that provides them with an intelligent, trained work force that enables them to do business. Most of those things in this country now are broken down and in need of repair because the money that once provided them vanished when Bush cut corporate taxes, granted huge loopholes and even poured tax dollars in their bank accounts. The middle class can't afford to provide all of that.

[KeithE]

[ET]

[ET]

[Gene Scarborough]

Folks---

We can throw out all the "economic theories" we want, but the Kingfisher of "Amos 'n Andy" fame put is simply: "If yo out go exceeds yo in come / yo up keep will be yo down fall!"

We are repeating the process of the Viet Nam War + The War on Poverty under LBJ. It boils down to spending $10 for every $1 taken in with taxes. Only the government can print money without gold to back it! In most places it's called "counterfeiting," but in government it's called "creative accounting." That applies to Corporations and banking as well. You just can't spend more than you earn or the ceiling crashes eventually.

This current spoiled economy is a result of the same problem. Every American wants it NOW and pulls out their credit cards at 20%+/- to get it. With inflation running about 2% this equates to giant profits for banks issuing them. Many, like me, put their faith in real estate growth as the best place for retirement savings. The values went up some 10-15% every year, but the economy was not at that rate. When all went bust and I was suddenly making 30% or what I did pre-Recession, I lost that house and all my retirement invested in that "golden egg." I was using "home equity" as a leverage for my business needs. When it was good, it worked. When it went bust, I could not sell my house for what was owed. All real estate in Nash County, NC, was selling at 30% off appraised value. Taxes have not changed to reflect it, but the "market" is a clear sign that NOTHING in a capitalist economy is worth one red cent more than someone will pay you for it!

The events of the last few days and hours are nothing but a dog-and-pony show. The monkey is climbing the tree and showing more and more tail with each limb climbed. Last night's fiasco when Republicans could not get their act together hinged on Tea Party Republicans not going along with more reasoned Republicans. It was and is REDICULOUS!!!

Ever since we engaged in Title XX Funds as a quick fix to poverty in the 70's, we have created a monster of porch sitters scheming to maximize their take from the government hind tit. Add to this the ungodly expenditures in a Middle East War we cannot win and you have a financial melt down of gigantic purportions. The other factor is gigantic tax-payer gifts to large Corporations / Banks / Auto Industry---none of which have "trickled down" to the taxpayer. Put all this together and we have a mess equal to the Great Depression. It is world-wide and it won't end soon!!! After all, "the Recession ended 2 years ago" according to our government sooth-sayers.

Not just NO, but HELL NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There will be a compromise to keep us from going under. Obama and the Democrats will be the beneficiaries of this Republican clown act. If Republicans persist in keeping thing bad until 2012, it will blow up in their face. The average American taxpayer has had enough!!!!!!!

Let's install TERM LIMITS and make all the monkeys leave after 3 terms. At the least, the "vested interests" will have to buy their stooges every three terms. The honest truth is that we have something never envisioned by the Founding Fathers = Professional Politicians earning much for representing their constituents and voting themselves far greater income and benefits than that averate taxpayer!

I am doing my best to live on 30% of what I made 4 years ago. I fail to see why government should not join me in the "belt tightening." I suspect we could do very well on a 30% reduction in spending.

Many programs instituted to get us out of the Depression are no longer needed nor appropriate. The War on Poverty is going into its 40th year. If the poor aren't better off, it's time for them to starve or start working. Put in the same 40 hours as week I do on some Public Works Project to clean up an eroding infrastructure like roads and parks. Get off your porch and work to reduce that 400-500 pound body eating the best meats and foods us average taxpayers can't afford!!!!

This "crisis" is one of looking for wealth without work. The ONLY PLACE such exists is in the dictionary!!!!!

[KeithE]

[Gene Scarborough]

As a small business owner I live in a more realistic world than most on this discussion. My REALITY is trying to live on 30% of what I earned 4 years ago. It's not easy. Ends are still not meeting. Business since July 4 has been almost nil! This crisis is personal for me and other business owners.

I talk to NO ONE who is doing better than 70% of 4 years ago with their business. Even the larger commercial businesses are starting to feel the pinch. A 30-70% reduction in earnings is REALITY.

So what is the problem with getting serious in Washington and Raleigh over the necessity of government budget cuts. Where would I start to get rid of the inflated spending:

1) Providing Military services which are un-reimbursed around this world. We can no longer be the army for the world. Do we really need all the space-age gimmicks we are developing when we are already some 20 years advanced over any military on this planet?

2) Analysis of subsidies and breaks installed in the 1930's that have become a benefit for the corporate farmer, for example. An agribusiness (new term for corporate farmers) which has credit to borrow $1-5 Million to start the year, is hardly a candidate for subsidies from the taxpayer! All corporations need the same cut-backs. OIl---another greedy tit-sucker.

3) Welfare change. The reasonable solution for infrastructure repair is to put tools in the hands of porch sitters sucking off the Welfare dole. Uneployment benefits must be replaced with jobs to repair roads and bridges. If they work 40 hours like I do, then they collect. Weight reduction is best accomplished by hard work.

4) Term Limits and equal benefits to Social Security for those who represent us and should live like us taxpayers.

5) Enforcement of already-existing regulation with banks / investment firms / industry. This meltdown was a simple result of lack of regulation! The movie "Too Big To Fail" is now running on cable. Look at it carefully as it describes the shenanigans surrounding the bank bailouts and especially AIG which was holding the insurance for most of them if they failed. It was all about opening the doors wide on real estate loans to people who could not possibly afford them. Greed on the part of individuals and undue risk assumed against the money of average people doing their banking with the giants directly resulted in "The Great Recession."

This mess is waxing long because it is deeper than any of us imagined. It is world wide. It's not going to end with a simple "budget agreement" which is a piece of gum put in the widening crack of a dam of over-extended credit.

[Stephen Fox]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/01/opini ... _LO_MST_FB

I called three D.C. offices for US Congressman and talked to staffers for wll three; and offices for Two US Senators.

How many did Scarborough call?

[Stephen Fox]

This piece has considerable merit

http://www.ethicsdaily.com/whats-the-de ... -cms-18288

[Stephen Fox]

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arc ... pt/242863/

James Fallows at the Atlantic thinks he lost. As did Krugman at NY Times

I think we are in for a vigorous debate the next two years.

Time for the Tea Party to be voted out

Will judge the character of the electorate

[Stephen Fox]