Super Rich paying less in taxes

[Sandy]

ET puts up a lot of information, mostly the standard rewritten version of history that the ultra right wing media promotes. None of it is accurate.

Wikipedia isn't exactly an infallible source.

The Clinton Administration's import tarrif, passed in 1993, was the key policy behind the European and Japanese auto makers putting plants in the US. Seven million jobs landed in the US between 1993 and the end of Clinton's second term in 2000 as a result of these negotiated deals. Bush didn't do anything to promote it. The number of manufacturing, engineering and other professional jobs declined during the Bush administration, according to the Standard and Poor's, wages declined, benefits declined, and the only category of job creation that increased were minimum wage jobs.

History bears these things out, but of course the new ultra right wing media has to deny anything done by any Democratic president. Hoover's policy was pure Republicanism to the hilt, following on the heels of the corruption of Harding and the Laissez-Faire economics of Coolidge. The great depression resulted. Sure, most "recessions" last 8 or 9 months, but then, this was more than a typical recession. Essentially, when the economy began to grow again, a year ago, the recession officially ended. We've had seven straight months of job growth, and the stock market has recovered almost to the point where it was before all of this began. Job growth hasn't followed suit, though it is beginning to fall within the expected range, because Bush allowed so many jobs to be exported, and those are hard to get back. Thank God Bush is gone and Obama is in, or we'd be suffering now worse than those who went through the worst of the great depression.

I certainly wouldn't expect anything the GOP proposes now to be worth the paper it is printed on, much less will it lead to any kind of economic recovery. It will enrich the already super rich, but other than that, it will suck money out of the economy necessary for the retail and service sector to create jobs. The GOP has no motivation to see the economy recover, because if it does, it costs them the White House, and probably Congress as well, in 2012. Just like during the depression, they couldn't care less about individual suffering.

[Jim]

The statistics don’t lie. The current strategy of the administration is the opposite of what the knowledgeable economists know, mainly that living on printed money will sooner or later completely destroy the economy and will never pay off the enormous debt that has been exponentially expanded in especially the last two years. The liberal axiom is simply that raising taxes is the answer, not just on the rich but on everyone. Given their rathers, the liberals would quickly revert the tax code to what it was in the 1950s-60s, on the order of 90% at the top, an era following WWII that can’t possibly be compared to what’s happening now, financially or demographically. The rate still stood at 70% by the end of Carter’s woeful tenure. Taxing the people out of existence who actually create jobs and wealth stifles incentive but sheer jealousy by those who have neither the brains nor other elements conducive to taking risk and making it work call for this. I’m a pensioner who lives month-to-month but I don’t care how well others can work the system in order to make it for themselves while employing others.

The strategy in this administration is clearly the creation of a welfare state, so the printing of money means nothing, nor does the unemployment rate. Obama would have jacked up the top rate far above the 39.6% if he could have, thus guaranteeing that joblessness would continue to the point that mega-millions would be forced into the government-paid unemployment compensation as simply a way to live, just as the African American community accepted the entitlements of the 1960s as the new way to live, black men especially, huge numbers of which now reside in penitentiaries as a way of life. As housing values become more and more depleted, private property of all kinds lose value, with the government as the last resort for existence. This is socialism, the new paradigm (Obama’s CHANGE) for governance. It’s not at all guaranteed that the nation will recover from it, and both parties have contributed to its furtherance, either through political careerism as god or just plain stupidity. The troubling aspect is that many such as some in this forum are actually socialists, but socialists with no sense of history.

[KeithE]

[Sandy]

[Gene Scarborough]

If you will kindly click above, you will find a startling chart on taxes paid by individuals / corporations / the rich!!!

I will suprise you if you are a trusting person about what has happened to the working man over the last several years.

Get out you tube of K-Y Jelly before you click!!!!

[ET]

[ET]

[Gene Scarborough]

ET---

I note you blame "all things bad" on President Obama, yet claim Democratic past Presidents had success over things really done by the Republican predecessors!!! A little / lot inconsistent, I think.

The ONLY REASON our stats and situation aren't worse with unemployment is the false bottom created by the 4-times-extended Federal Unemployment Benefits----which the former employer has to cover when money sent in runs out. It is a misnomer to call it "unemployment insurance" when the employer pays dollar for dollar money drawn by his ex-employee = another screw in stuggling small businesses' coffin.

We had LBJ fighting the War in Viet Nam and War on Poverty side by side with equal red ink spending as is going on now. In that case, Carter inherited the runaway inflation he did not create! In the current economy Bush created the mess and added to the lack of regulation on finance and business + monster tax loopholes so they don't pay taxes + a terribly expensive war in the Middle East we can't extricate ourselves from.

Either you man up and say both Republicans and Democrats spending taxpayer money are responsible and we all suffer, or I won't bother to discuss with a person whose feet are set in concrete these important matters.

"WE have met the enemy---and it is US!" ---- Pogo in the 60's as the war raged in Viet Nam.

[ET]

[Sandy]

The causes of the depression rest with the Harding and Coolidge administrations and their economic policy, which was basically today's Republicanism of low corporate tax, low wages and no government assistance to the impoverished because it kept wages low and competition for jobs high so that big business would benefit, moderately protective tarrifs for those industries and businesses who had the cash to influence the government to do their bidding, and balancing the tax burden on the backs of the middle class, particularly the working class. The amount of spendable dollars was sucked out of the economy like a gigantic vacuum during Coolidge's term. He was unresponsive, especially to the suffering of the working class and farmers. Hoover's policies were reactionary, once the market crashed and the prosperity evaporated. The problem wasn't with the economic policy he proposed, it was that the US wasn't the only place dealing with a depression, and Smoot Hawley knocked over Europe's fragile economies. Though the government accumulated quite a surplus in the treasury, he wouldn't lift a finger to put it back into the economy.

So along comes Roosevelt, with a Democratic Congress, the New Deal, and regardless of all the whine about how socialistic it was, his policies saved the US economy. Who knows where we would have headed if not for that? If the depression had lasted much longer, it is conceivable that a government overthrow and revolution may have resulted, with the seeds already beeing sown for that, and Europe going through the experience. Roosevelt saved the US from that, and then led us through the war, which is why he is considered one of the greatest Presidents in history, and why he's the only other one, besides Lincoln, Jefferson and Washington, who has a major memorial on the National Mall in Washington.

One more Republican president, whether its 2012 or 2016, and we'll see a return to the Great Depression with a vengeance.

[Dave Roberts]

The problem I see is that neither the GOP nor the Dem's are willing to talk about solutions encompassing ideas from the other party. Republicans talk about cutting from social programs they dislike but not about cutting defense. Democrats speak of cutting defense and raising taxes that are anathema to Republicans. The solution, IMHO, must involve some pain in all of these. There will have to be cuts in a broad scope of programs. There will have to be increases in taxes of the richest Americans and the closing of a great many loopholes that allow individuals and corporations to avoid paying any or much in taxes. The tax code greatly needs to be simplified. Congressmen and Senators need to accept that not all cuts can be taken from someone else's pork. As long as both parties talk about and across each other, nothing will get done unless we have a greater fiscal crisis or China starts calling in our debts.

[ET]

Sandy, did you get that summary from Bernie Sanders' "The proletariat's guide to the economic history of the United States", reprinted from Pravda????

Dave, you are right, but I seriously doubt that Americans are willing to endure the pain of cutting things across the board.

[Dave Roberts]

[Gene Scarborough]

Look---it is hard times around the world = first basic part of this being a Depression rather than a Recession. It has gone on enough that it is now being called "The Great Recession." Were it not for the FDIC banks would have crashed everywhere already. Were it not for Unemployment enxtensions multituded would be sleeping under trees and getting in food lines as well.

This is all serious, but no one is getting serious. As long as Republicans delight in a failed economy and think it will help them in 2012, they are only being selfish. As long as we keep any bureacuracy not needed or subsidy, we are not addressing anything. All small businesses have eliminated anything unnecessary. My customers are not putting money on trees as they do not consider it "essential." EVERY tree company is in deep trouble over this. Even the tornadoes that tore up NC didn't help us because all the volunteers were doing dangerous work for free. FEMA pick up was free, but paid by taxpayers. For once our taxpayers got a benefit from their dollars sent to Uncle Sam, at lest.

When we continue to provide military services to the Middle East while they hike the price of oil, we are fools. What is the problem with those who can afford our services paying for such? What is the problem with people on welfare taking up a swingblade / shovel / hoe and doing public service work for the same 40 hour work week taxpayers do to pay them to sit on porches and than force imported labor to do the work in the field to harvest crops???

It looks to me like someone somewhere better start thinking over making excuses and blaming others for this mess. Not one red cent has trickled down to the taxpayer from the billions given the auto / banking / financial industries. Otherwise GM products would be 61% cheaper to the taxpayers who owned just that much of them. Now it is 31% taxpayer ownership! Yet I haven't seen the first sign of a reduced price sale and good loans to back them at the bank.

Trickledown---smickledown!!!! The greed of man is driving this Capitalist society right now. Even the enticement of a Socialist or Communist approach still separated rich from poor and made things worse rather than better---with massive loss of life in China and Russia.

Do we always naively suck up to lies and distortion when helping one another is a far better road to happiness and security?

[Sandy]

[Gene Scarborough]

When Conservatives start calling people names, you know they are out of logic to support their positions.

I always ask of Conservatives-----

[ET]

[ET]

[Gene Scarborough]

Sorry, ET, but your answer is NO ANSWER---just more rhetoric from your fixed position.

H.L. Menken called Conservatives "my contemporary ancestors!" I can agree whole-heartedly with that one!!!

I especially take exception to your "take from one and give to another" description of government---NO---the role of government is to bring about peace and prosperity to hard working people and give them an opportunity to succeed without undue duress. It's sole purpose is to do as a servant for it's electorate those things which benefit the most for the least money expended for such.

Today is a day of collusion and turning of heads to the cost of public works. Is it not strange how that "new 4-lane" ends up with shopping centers and subdivisions bringing great profit to those owning land before or during its creation???? So who knew ahead of time where that Interstate was going / bought the great intersection land at a pittance / sold it to the government for prime dollars far more than the purchase price 10 years back???

In the case of I-95 north of Atlanta and I-85 north of Gainsville, Ga----it was the Governor / Senator / and others who formed that silent partnership to do such at taxpayer expense!!!!!

[Sandy]

[Jim]

[Gene Scarborough]

Blame it all on the Democrats!!!!

NAW---it started during 8 years of neglected enforcement of securities and banking rules during Bush + the wellhead in the Gulf which blew was a result of the same lack of due diligence by those who got bribed to turn their heads and say NOTHING!

[Sandy]

[Gene Scarborough]

So far this week all the talking heads are citing the economy as the number 1 problem for any candidate in 2012---yet Republicans are blocking many measures designed to help with their scream of "No more deficite increase!"

What political baloney. Just another way to divert and diversify an already splintered society.

It's in coming together with solutions that things will improve, dummies----so where is there a cooperative bone in your body???? To constantly criticize with no more reasonable alternatives is----just more destructive and hurtful.

[Jim]