Bill Moyers Slams 9/11 Truthers

[Big Daddy Weaver]

[Ed Pettibone]

[KeithE]

[Big Daddy Weaver]

[Big Daddy Weaver]

[KeithE]

Will concede that Moyers is not the most studied anti-truther. Dave Dunbar may have that honor. I think many public persona have the need to say they are somewhat centrist on matters and several pick 9/11 as an example to say they are not that extreme. But the many and diverse facts of 9/11 must be faced head-on and the whole movement should not treated in a utilitarian "political positioning" fashion. That is my sense of what Moyers was doing.

[Gene Scarborough]

I think this is the most equal to the Kennedy Assassination in an attempt to get at whatever the "real truth" is. Pearl Harbor was the one before Kennedy which drew the most attention. Anyone want to follow and try and decide "truth" has plenty of information on the History Channel and National Geographic Channel. It certainly draws my attention.

Here is my take on 9/11:

The biggest question is how 4 hijacked commercial aircraft went off the radar screen and the USAF along with all other services with pursuit jets did not practice their PROTOCOL.

Every day there is a standing order that any aircraft violating US air space requires a launch to inspect. You can have commercial aircraft with a transponder accidentally turned off or them using the wrong radio setting so they do not hear the commands of FAA Controllers to identify. I happen to have a retired USAF Colonel who flew the jets during Viet Nam and after.

He was launched with an aircraft coming within range of our borders. He flew quickly to the location and determined it was a large jet--military or commercial was the question. His controller ordered him to put on his lights and report the tail number, which he did. He knew nothing more than he clearly saw and reported a commercial aircraft which had done a no-no.

A few weeks later he was flying that airline in civilian clothes. He chatted with a female attendant who told him of the most scary adventure she had a few weeks ago when a bright light suddenly invaded the darkened cabin as people slept and scared the bejesus out of everyone! He quietly chuckled to himself over knowing exactly what had happened.

Now here is the real question of 9/11: A standing order means it must be done unless countermanded. Who has such authority to countermand below the rank of President???? Think about it!!!

[Jim]

The 9/11 Truthers were/are mostly people embittered by the election of 2000, so a year later they launched their “hate Bush” campaign with this conspiracy-stuff involving Bush and bin Laden, bosom buddies. They haven’t an ounce of proof and no thinking person pays them much mind. The other set of Truthers came on line in 2005, a year after the 2004 elections, with more embittered “hate Bush” people blaming Bush for Katrina problems, notwithstanding that the commission investigating it, besides common knowledge, indicated that the main culprits were NO Mayor Nagin and Louisiana governor Blanco, who caused all that death and misery, despite practically being begged by Bush to legally give the feds permission to intervene. The birth Truthers (I’m not one) also have their agenda, but it would help if Obama would just produce a valid birth certificate.

[ET]

[KeithE]

[Ed Pettibone]

Ed: See http://www.popularmechanics.com/technol ... ths-planes

Below the one on the White Jet is perhaps my favorite.
Debunking the 9/11 Myths: Special Report - Flight 93
Popular Mechanics examines the evidence and consults the experts to refute the most persistent conspiracy theories of September 11.
By The Editors
Email ThisEmail
Print ThisPrint
RSSRSS
ShareShare
0diggsdigg
February 3, 2005 12:00 AM
Debunking 9/11 Myths Introduction Background | Podcast | Book | FAQ | Sources
The Planes Where's The Pod? | No Stand-Down Order | Flight 175's Windows | Intercepts Not Routine
The World Trade Center Widespread Damage | "Melted" Steel | Puffs of Dust | Seismic Spikes | WTC 7 Collapse
The Pentagon Big Plane, Small Holes | Intact Windows | Flight 77 Debris
Flight 93 The White Jet | Roving Engine | Indian Lake | F-16 Pilot


Flight 93
Cockpit recordings indicate the passengers on United Airlines Flight 93 teamed up to attack their hijackers, forcing down the plane near Shanksville, in southwestern Pennsylvania. But conspiracy theorists assert Flight 93 was destroyed by a heat-seeking missile from an F-16 or a mysterious white plane. Some theorists add far-fetched elaborations: No terrorists were aboard, or the passengers were drugged. The wildest is the "bumble planes" theory, which holds that passengers from Flights 11, 175 and 77 were loaded onto Flight 93 so the U.S. government could kill them.

The White Jet
(Thruthers) Claim: At least six eyewitnesses say they saw a small white jet flying low over the crash area almost immediately after Flight 93 went down. BlogD.com theorizes that the aircraft was downed by "either a missile fired from an Air Force jet, or via an electronic assault made by a U.S. Customs airplane reported to have been seen near the site minutes after Flight 93 crashed." WorldNetDaily.com weighs in: "Witnesses to this low-flying jet ... told their story to journalists. Shortly thereafter, the FBI began to attack the witnesses with perhaps the most inane disinformation ever—alleging the witnesses actually observed a private jet at 34,000 ft. The FBI says the jet was asked to come down to 5000 ft. and try to find the crash site. This would require about 20 minutes to descend."

FACT: There was such a jet in the vicinity—a Dassault Falcon 20 business jet owned by the VF Corp. of Greensboro, N.C., an apparel company that markets Wrangler jeans and other brands. The VF plane was flying into Johnstown-Cambria airport, 20 miles north of Shanksville. According to David Newell, VF's director of aviation and travel, the FAA's Cleveland Center contacted copilot Yates Gladwell when the Falcon was at an altitude "in the neighborhood of 3000 to 4000 ft."—not 34,000 ft. "They were in a descent already going into Johnstown," Newell adds. "The FAA asked them to investigate and they did. They got down within 1500 ft. of the ground when they circled. They saw a hole in the ground with smoke coming out of it. They pinpointed the location and then continued on." Reached by PM, Gladwell confirmed this account but, concerned about ongoing harassment by conspiracy theorists, asked not to be quoted directly.

[KeithE]

[Gene Scarborough]

Conspirasy Theories have a life of their own--especially with the Internet and U-Tube to show things not seen on networks.
The trouble comes when we obsess over them.

People who had traumatic beginnings or events along the way of life which traumatized them tend to see others plotting against them under every rock. This is seldom the case, but it can happen and don't forget it. A part of a traumatized personality is obsessive doubt. There are plenty of traumatized people today.

With Kennedy's assasination, anyone who ever hunted with a high-powered rifle knows no single bullet can do the damage to Kennedy and Conelly supposedly done by Oswald. Anyone viewing Oliver Stone's JFK movie with the slow-down of the Zapruder film sees his head peel off from front to back scattering his skull pieces and brains on the back of the lemosine. Jackie then pursues part of his skull lying on the trunk lid. Gruesome footage, but telling more than our government's "official tale" of a slain President. It was definitely a shot from the right front which destroyed half his head!

With 9/11, I am content that hijackers worked a well-conceived master plan and took us to our knees over the pretense that airlines are safe and weapons cannot get on board. I am totally mal-content over how the standing orders to pursue and shoot down, if necessary, any commercial jet which is off the radar screen did not take place. Their path took them over the most heavily air-based part of this country. Before such a shoot-down the jet pilot will fly beside the cockpit and raise/lower his gear as the international signal to land. It is the moral dilemma of sacrificing a few to save the many AND the USAF is totally capable of executing the order promptly with precision. They practice it continually with success, but it was not executed on 9/11. The only explaination for me is a countermanding order from the Commander-in-Chief or his designated decision maker---like maybe Dick Cheney / Rumsfield / etc. For Bush to sit in a schoolroom for a PR event lets me know he knew, at the least.

[Gene Scarborough]

Anyone wanting to do a little more research has plenty of surrounding information at each site.

[KeithE]

[Gene Scarborough]

Thanks, Keith---My father always encouraged knowledge of "the story behind the story." In Baptistland there have been more ulterior motives than people care to know. Knowing them helps explain some of the craziness of our politics in the last 30+ years.

Why can't people just "Tell the truth / whole truth / nothing but the truth" so we are not deceived?

[Ed Pettibone]

[ET]

[KeithE]

[Dave Roberts]

Conspiracy theories are such fun in this world. They provide some of the most entertaining studies. There are always gaps in government reports, no matter how thorough they seem. Someone is going to create a theory using them. I don't get excited just because someone does, but maybe I'm a skeptic to begin with.

[Ed Pettibone]

KeithE writes: "Ed I am a genuine researcher looking into ALL the facts. Go and do likewise. Start with http://www.wtc7.net/ since I do not know how anyone could rebut that effectively.

Edl KeithE You are a "genuine" reesearcher in what area? Architecture, High rise construction. conspiracy theory, Fire Contol, Accident Reconstruction or just what? You may be a good researcher at what ever ir is that you do at Red Stone but from what I have seen of your presentations on 9/11 and Global warming I am less than impressed. BTW I have also been trained in and held jobs utilizing research methodology and publishing the results with minimum personal bias. I have read quite a lot of material by truthers and by those attempting to debunk those theories. And while a few truthers claims have given me pause at times I am persuaded that the only conspiracy in that event was hatched and planned in Iran. And carried out by a relative small handful of self made Iranian radical Iranian martyrs. Yet I would not be surprised if proof turns up that better intelligence gathering and processing might have resulted in a different scenario. A lack of adequate preparedness at most, not one of purposeful treason. Hind sight is almost always better than foresight.

I do not claim to have done the first shred of original research on 9/11 but from 2002 to 2009, I talked with people who where there on that day and others who where involved directly in the cleanup , a designer for the phone company that installed and maintained the telephone equipment in WTC complex as it was being built and a state surveyor who worked the site prior to the original construction and they have all rejected the conspiracy theories. I have not talked in person with any one having first hand information on the property since moving in January of last year. The Communications designer has left the state and died of old age in the Midwest.

BTW, have you yet visited the WTC site? Having been there both before and after 911, I am amazed that the destruction was not more wide spread. And Keith as to your, Go thou..., Trudy and occasional my doctors are the only humans who's orders get much reaction from me. This thing is not even a hobby with me. Where and when and how much I pursue it is strictly at my pleasure.

[Gene Scarborough]

Some good stuff, guys!!

It is interesting where each of you lands:
ET = focused on the Model T and spreading it to the WTC
Keith = serious reading of much material
Ed = throwing cold water in typical curmudgeon fashion

This is what makes blogging interesting! I have been watching the Great Tea Party gathering in Phoenix via webcast for which I paid $10. Now----there is the greatest gathering of theorists I have seen in a long time!!! It, too, is based on suspicion about government--only Democrats are the enemy with them and especially the President. This one is filled with a thread of hate common to almost every speaker.

Too often we are getting bogged in details of a single event to the exclusion of a string of events taking place over the last 30+ years. If you put Pearl Harbor + JFK Assassination + WTC = we are often manipulated and history changed when people are filled with hate + a single viewpoint is bent on imposing its outlook.

For me a good healthy dose of skepticism and the question of "Who gains most with this?" makes for analysis leading to the truth. Given enough time, the truth always seems to come out. What is most interesting is George Bush's Executive Order to double the time government can claim National Security and bury the raw evidence. This is something hardly noticed by those of us who want freedom of access to enjoy the freedom of research!!!!

[KeithE]

[Gene Scarborough]

Ed---

I think it's safe to say, "You have pissed an Alabama Southern boy off!!!

Beware lest the wrath of us Rebels descend on your Yankee head!!! This storm coming today for the NE is straight out of the mid-South!!

We don't get mad---we just get even!

BUT---have a blessed Monday anyway.

[Ed Pettibone]