Obama at Arizona

[Rock]

What did you think of President Obama's speech? I thought he was very presidential. No barbs, prophetic enough, but mostly pastoral.
Here is the transcript:

[Neil Heath]

Didn't see it, but heard mostly positive reviews of it in CNN commentary later on.

[Jim]

My take: .

[Sandy]

[Tim Bonney]

[Mrs Haruo]

I agree, Tim. It was very presidential, and uplifting and encouraging. I lost close family members last year, and the wounds are still open. If Barack Obama had spoken like that about my mother or my dearest cousin, I would have felt they had been honored--even though Mom usually voted Republican!

[Jim]

S: Who said this was planned to be a solemn occasion? The members of the victims' families who were almost unanimous in their appraisal that "Tucson needed something to cheer about?" Congresswoman Giffords' husband, who clearly acknowledged this outpouring of support for his wife's recovery and healing? This was an overwhelmingly emotional occasion, and shouting, cheering and loud applause are overwhelmingly emotional reactions. The loudest cheers and applause was reserved for the mention of the victims, time and time again.

J: You didn’t present your thoughts about the service, but gave your thoughts on my thoughts. You may approve of cheering the dead at funerals but that seems a bit bizarre to me. I think the president’s speech (eulogy) was supposed to last for 20 minutes but with the “solemn” cheering amounted to a “slam dunk” of some 35 minutes or so. One wonders how long the service at Ft. Hood would have lasted if time was given for hurrahs for each of the thirteen victims…time and time again, that is. This generation has a bit of a problem with death: .

[Sandy]

[Jim]

S: Background checks aren't that hard to run, and he'd made enough of a record to at least raise a red flag, except when it comes to purchasing firearms. In that regard, those who sell guns and ammo tend to do as they please without consequences.

J: According to the media, the proper background check was performed at the time Loughner bought his hardware. He had no record. If he had procured his gun improperly, that would have been the big story today, not the shooting itself, and the anti-gun crowd would have been in ecstasy. According to the media, Sheriff Dupnik, he of the sermon concerning hateful rhetoric, was well aware of Loughner’s problems, as were both the city and college police, but did nothing to stop him from getting a gun. He obviously had this in mind when he tried to shift the blame for the shooting onto somebody(s) besides himself. The Virginia Tech gunman also had no trouble buying an arsenal, and he wasted 33 people. Major Hasan, of course, was in the army so one presumes he would have no trouble getting a gun. How would it be if before a guy could buy a six-pack or a fifth he had to be subject to a background check? After all, thousands of people die at the hands of drunk drivers every year, thousands more than at the hands of a lunatic. Unfortunately, this is not a perfect world.

[Sandy]

[Jim]

[ET]

[Jim]

Agreed. There’s actually no need for outsiders to deliver eulogies, although some good can come from it. In the memorial service regarding the Virginia Tech massacre of 16 April 2007, a solemn President Bush spoke for just over six minutes. There were not 33 ovations for the victims, though there was applause when the president finished. The service took place the day after the shootings, not four days, as was the case in Tucson. Check out the affair and you won’t see a teleprompter, either.

[Sandy]

Every situation is unique, and Jim's continued comparisons of Tucson with the Wellstone funeral in Minnesota and the Virginia Tech shootings are pointless. In Tucson, the shooter attempted to assasinate a member of Congress, and succeeded in assassinating a federal judge, though he apparently wasn't aware that the judge was present. Had the President not made the effort to participate in a memorial service to which he was invited, conservatives, in the nasty, sarcastic vein that they've learned from their radio disc-jockey announcers, would have had a field day. The President hasn't done any more, or less, of this sort of thing than any of his predecessors ever have. And even though he is apparently the target of Ed's rant here, the fact of the matter is that several key Republicans showed up eagerly, and with speeches in hand as well. Bush certainly did his share of the same thing when he was in office, though he often came off as insensitive rather than empathetic.

Any place where someone has plea bargained their charges or sentence from a felony to a misdemeanor is a place where individuals with a cumulative record of violence can purchase firearms. That's why I believe gun purchase background checks should include any information about a plea bargain, or a reduced sentence due to a legal negotiation.

[ET]

"Rant", Sandy? What rant? I should have known any comments I made would have been twisted into something they are not, but I have come to expect that here. The issue was not Obama or Bush, Republican or Democrat, or who did what and how much. It was that somehow we have reached a point in this society that if something bad happens, we seem to expect - even demand - that politicians drop what they are doing and show up to lead the funeral or make their speeches. To me it is evidence of the faith that we have placed in government over God. If politicians want to show up at these events, then fine, but let them sit down, shut up and sit in the back and out of the spotlight, especially when they can offer no solutions to such issues nor can they prevent them from happening again.

And by the way, Sandy, sarcasm has been a staple of political discourse for 2000+ years. It's use by those with whom you disagree does not negate it's usefulness as a rhetorical device nor invalidate the points made with it.

[Jim]

[Sandy]

[Haruo]

And then there was the Gettysburg Address...

[ET]

[Dave Roberts]

Where do we find a reasonable middle ground that will at least renew the assault weapons ban. Thirty-three shot magazines are not needed in a Glock unless you are trying to commit mass murder. I'm working in a law-enforcement agency now, and only SWAT teams carry clips like that.

[Jim]

[Sandy]

[Jim]

S: For someone who isn't a talk radio "buff," you sure seem to spout a lot of their lines, terms and rhetoric, especially the line about Obama's propaganda arm "insisting that the shooter was just an ordinary citizen responding to Republican hate speech."

J: Actually, no. They spout a lot of my lines.

S: The President, in his speech, incorporated inspiring characteristics and actions related to each of the six fatalities. When he spoke about civility in political discourse, he was expressing the views and desires of Congresswoman Giffords. He chose the youngest victim to speak about hope for the future.

J: That sounds about like the lib-left media folks, who far outnumber those on the right and who perhaps mold your thinking for you. You’re probably an Olbermann fan, who froths at the mouth occasionally and has to be sometimes restrained, though he’s escaped the straitjacket so far. I know that’s unfair because I’ve made that judgment on perhaps ten minutes of ever viewing him, but word gets around. The prez did spend a good bit of time on Giffords even though she was not a subject of the “eulogy” since she survived. I don’t have a problem with that even though the political angle was all that mattered. He kept coming back to the young girl because the death of the young always elicits the most reaction and, of course, drives up the approval ratings…that “I feel your pain” approach.

S: Anyone who thinks that this was a "brazen attempt not to let a crisis go to waste" wasn't paying attention and already had their mind made up before he ever uttered a word.

J: You have made an apparent self-description. The networks are still playing the Tucson event for all it’s worth, although the “biggies,” having given the event the importance it deserves by being on the scene and eliciting as many tears as possible, have returned to their headquarters, leaving underlings to keep the thing going, thus reminding the public of the great heart of the prez, who turned a 20-minute teleprompter eulogy into a 35-minute standing ovation for himself. Distributing free T-shirts at a eulogy put the event in a class all by itself and put it in the proper perspective. I don’t know if that gem of an idea came from the president’s people or the university but it at least gave it the importance of an NCAA final-four game.

S: The November elections awakened the sleeping left. The tendency of this Presidents' detractors to put this kind of image on him, in some cases before he ever takes action or says anything, not only makes them look like idiots to the tenth power, but it helps add to his political capital, and increases the odds that he'll win a second term.

J: I sort of got the idea that the elections awakened the sleeping populace, which had had enough of being “socialized.” But the entire affair did help the prexy’s approval ratings, so he certainly didn’t let a crisis go to waste. The Ft. Hood affair was solemn and meaningful, not much help to a prez, but the Tucson ceremony had pizzazz, so look for similar affairs. Actually, I’m an idiot to only the eighth power, so I’m naturally offended.

[Stephen Fox]

http://www.religiondispatches.org/archi ... in_tucson/

Again, looks like Jim misses the point; perspective little skewed.

Rock, would be grand if you could get back in the discussion as it has evolved thus far.

[Jim]