Don't Ask Don't Tell (in military)

[Haruo]

I see the Senate just voted (65 to 31, I think) to repeal the ban on gays serving openly in the US military. I applaud that vote, hope that it will be confirmed by both houses and signed by the President, and expect that it will increase the general level of truthfulness in the country at large.

I haven't had a chance to start my "Homosexual practice and sin(fulness)" thread (which will go in the general Baptist Faith & Practice Forum I think) but thought it might be useful to have a thread going on the political end of the issue.

[KeithE]

This is a tough one for me. I know "liberals" are supposed to be happy with this bill passing; but on reflection I think Don't Ask, Don't Tell (DADT) was a good policy.

I'm definitely not for banning gays/lesbians in the military service despite the possibility of same-sex lustful eyes in the showers. Just like I'm not for banning gays/lesbians in the high/middle school PE dressing rooms. And just like I'm not against co-ed schooling or segregated societies due to the possibility of straight lustful eyes. And the argument that says straight people will not react well in life and death situations (so-called foxhole) when gays/lesbians are around is false - they are more concerned about survival at that point. So I am for gays/lesbians in the military doing their share.

But to me DADT is a reasonable solution. Removing that can only cause problems to surface when someone self-identifies themselves as gay/lesbian through word or deed. There will be bigoted soldiers who will cause problems - be they official complaints or humiliating harassment. The Don't Tell part of DADT should help limit the complaints and hopefully the harassment. But I'm speaking pragmatically; in a perfect world where soldiers shook off such acts/suspected stares/overtures and did not complain/harass, Do Ask, Do Tell would be just fine. And I guess polls in the military said that most soldiers do not care, good for them. But I suspect some do, and I'll predict more court cases/court marshalls will result due to the ending of DADT.

Maybe in ten years, a Do Ask, Do Tell policy will work. But not now from what I hear around my neck of the woods (Bible Belt); Seattle may be different. In fact my good friend and regular after church lunchmate said today he is in favor of a Do Ask, Do Shoot policy. I trust he was kidding, but I'm not sure given his attitude about capital punishment. He is normally very socially concerned - honchos a successful tutoring program at a middle school in one of the poorer areas of town and is always in favor of a bigger missions budget towards social programs.

I would advise GLB soldiers to keep quiet; T's best stay out. And I hope there is not some checkbox added to a military application for "orientation" as a result of the DADT demise or attempts made to segregate minority units akin to the black units in WWI and II.

[Ed Pettibone]

Ed: Keith would you be so kind as to translate this for me. "T's best stay out. And I hope there is not some checkbox added to a military application for "orientation" as a result of the DADT demise or attempts made to segregate minority units akin to the black units in WWI and II." I don't anticipate any such segregation .

[Haruo]

[KeithE]

[KeithE]

[Mrs Haruo]

This is a real hot button issue with me, because I have BEEN in the military. 30 some years ago I joined the Navy right out of high school. I was so innocent I wasn't sure what a homosexual was, other than letters my brother had written home from his tour of duty on a submarine where when they stopped in Pearl Harbor and went to a bar where men dresses up like women and you couldn't tell the real women from the fake ones. I and several of my classmates from the U.S. Navy School of Photography were invited to a service at some big church in town and asked to come in uniform. After a soul stirring flag waving service, I was down in the rest room in the stall and heard a couple of "church pillars" in decent hats and sensible shoes come in and one told the other that "The only girls who go into the Navy are lesbians or nymphomaniacs" Uh, thanks a lot lady. Really turned me off to going to church if I was going to be treated like %#$& every time I appeared in uniform. I heard that all the time. I was neither, but my roommate had been thrown out of boot camp her first time through for putting her arm around another girl when she had a letter with tragic news from home, and a homophobic officer came around the corner and saw them. Lena fought to stay in, she was heterosexual, but just showing sisterly affection toward another woman recruit could get you tossed if the wrong person caught you.
My chief said it best, "If a couple of you girls move off base and share an apartment, you are tagged as lesbians, if you share a place with a guy, no matter how platonic the relationship, you are a slut who is shacking up." My son is on active duty right now. "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" is a bunch of nonsense. Just keep your personal life to yourself and be professional in the work place.

[RyanHale]

[KeithE]

[Haruo]

When did "DADT" become policy? Pretty sure it was long after Mrs H's Vietnam-era active duty was over.

[KeithE]