Missouri Abortion law, Aug. 2010

[Hal Eaton]

I found no mention in the forum of this latest Missouri law regarding abortion. Among the requirements:

Largely based on other states’ legislation that has withstood court challenges, the new Missouri law requires the state to develop, and the abortionist to distribute, materials that

". . . describe the probable anatomical and physiological characteristics of the unborn child at two-week gestational increments from conception to full term, including color photographs or images of the developing unborn child at two-week gestational increments. Such descriptions shall include information about brain and heart functions, the presence of external members and internal organs during the applicable stages of development and information on when the unborn child is viable. The printed materials shall prominently display the following statement: 'The life of each human being begins at conception. Abortion will terminate the life of a separate, unique, living human being.'”

So the legislators have finally given us certainty concerning a problem that has bedeviled scientists, philosophers, moralists, religionists, and ethicists for centuries. It is obvious that Roman Catholic input has figured mightily in the wording of the law . . .

Fundamental to the circumstance is the rather simplistic question: What is a soul, and "ensoulment"?
We have unflinchingly used the word all our lives. Do you have a good definition, or description, or delineation, or characterization of what constitutes a "soul"? And does the process of acquiring a soul, at whatever stage of life, support the idea of law-makers deciding for us all, with attendant criminal classifications, just when this supposedly hallowed (by God) transformation take place?

What say you? And You? And YOU?

[Jim]

[KeithE]

[Tim Bonney]

[KeithE]

[Tim Bonney]

[Big Daddy Weaver]

[Tim Bonney]

If you read the statement carefully the UMC isn't saying it is "pro-abortion" but that the concerns for both the unborn and for the mother have to factor into decisions about abortion. I don't see anything in the UMC statement that says "9 weeks is ok, 10 weeks isn't." You picked a definition BDW of "late term" that isn't necessarily in the document. That being said the UMC does support a woman's right to choose.

[Big Daddy Weaver]

How do you want to define "late term abortion"??? It has a rather fixed, medical and legal definition.

Now, the UMC's position on late term abortion seems somewhat vague. Is the UMC opposed to the partial birth procedure or all late term abortions?

The link I provided, however, is apparently outdated. Maybe you can give a link from the UMC website. The abortion statement was amended in 2008 in what this UMC minister calls a decidedly pro-life direction.



See the revisions from 2004 to 2008 at that link.

[Ed Pettibone]

[Tim Bonney]

[Tim Bonney]

[Hal Eaton]

In looking over the responses to my original post, I find only one attempt to define "soul." (Jim defines it: "The soul is the totality of sinful, perishable, biological man and imperishable, spiritual man, whether a child of God or not.") (I remember when one searcher claimed that, at death, there was a measurable loss of weight of the carcass, occasioned by the departure of the soul for points unknown.)

KeithE sez: "Not by itself is a sperm a "potential" human being. It takes a egg and a protective womb as well. Then we certainly have a "potential" human being at that point."

Those opposed to stem-cell research seek to protect the egg-and-sperm combination (without the "protective womb") as having enough potential, even though destined for the scrap-heap, to warrant protection by the law . . .

I like Ed's Pro-Reason stance. I personally would allow every ethical and moral judgment regarding an abortion to be subject to the reasoned evaluation of all the attributes of any abortion decision.

This stance obviously prevents the establishment of a one-sentence, indisputable, infallible, inarguable final solution to the problem.

What is a "soul," anyway? Does it get destroyed by death? Or by abortion? Or by definition?

[Jim]

[Stephen Fox]

I have said repeatedly, any worthwhile discussion of abortion at this point begins with folks who are well versed in the analysis of Karen Gormley in her Parsing the Politics of Abortion and related articles.

All else including ERLC and Tim George's woeful 93 pamphlet, demagogging SBTS Paul Simmons while Invoking Bonhoeffer is Most Suspect and raises the question why Samford University would put up with such a Hack.