Billy Graham fertilized the SBC Fundy Takeover??

[Stephen Fox]

[Stephen Fox]

http://hnn.us/articles/25521.html

But to remind the scholarly among you, even Walter Buddy Shurden himself most fascinating stuff on exploring the legacy of an icon with an established public narrative

[Jim]

Northstine on Miller’s book via Foxy: An overarching point of Miller’s theme is that Graham gave considerable cover for Southerners to distance themselves from their segregated past. An evangelical understanding of the sins of racism allowed many to declare themselves healed and absolved from past guilt.

J: Either Northstine or Miller or both are unbelievably naïve or they have an anti-Graham agenda like Foxy’s. Graham had as a condition of his crusades in the South that they would be integrated. How that absolved anyone from guilt is beyond my poor faculties to understand. Contrarily, his actions pointed to the then-current guilt and had nothing to do with an evangelical understanding of anything. Graham’s generation was the one attempting to rectify effects of racism, real or imagined. That was not absolution, but moral uprightness.

N/M: Graham then criticized forced busing as a desegregation tactic, he further lauded law and order policies, and continually criticized the secularizing of America through the courts.

J: Graham was absolutely right and in synch with the inculcator of forced busing, Dr. James Coleman. This is from the Wall Street Journal of 21 July 1999: Finally in 1983, University of Chicago sociologist James Coleman ended the debate. Seventeen years after his influential defense of busing on the grounds that black kids would benefit from exposure to middle-class whites' study habits, Coleman unequivocally reversed himself: “The assumption that busing would improve achievement of lower-class black children has now been shown to be fiction." As for the claims that racial mingling would teach black and white children to get along, that too proved elusive in many schools where students resegregated as soon as they got to the lunchroom, and inequality in academic performance often only deepened white kids' prejudice. Orchestrated integration, given the flawed human condition, has never worked and will never work. Herding people like animals has always been a mistake. Graham was absolutely right in pointing out the fact that legislating through the courts is anathema, small groups of people with their agendas making legislative decisions. Perhaps the most glaring abuse by a federal judge concerning forced busing occurred in Louisville/Jefferson County, Ky., when by judicial fiat the judge combined the county and city school-boards/districts so that kids out in the county could be forced to ride buses to downtown Louisville and vice versa. It created a nightmare for the education systems, to say nothing of the interminable times the students spent just riding around. The education-achievement gap between whites and blacks is still enormous.

N/M: Miller also argues that his close association to Nixon and his vocal pronouncements on many conservative positions, especially social positions and the moral breakdown in society further made the region ripe for change. His public pronouncements and leadership according to Miller, would also help spawn the religious right as a force in American politics.

J: One has only to look at the society, still damned especially by the hippy-dippy, free-love, if-it-feels-good-do-it generation (baby boomers) to know that Graham was right; the nation is reeling now from the secularism/hedonism against which he preached. And practicing the concepts of the religious-right, hated by the politically correct (including in religious circles), may be what saves the nation, if anything does.

Men of the cloth are often used by politicians and Nixon may have done his share of manipulating. The most recent example is that of Obama, who, while he took forever to make it to Ft. Hood and the Gulf recently, managed a trip to the mountains of North Carolina for a photo-op with a gracious Graham (including Franklin, Foxy’s favorite punching bag), who new exactly what the trip was all about.

[Stephen Fox]

Jim misses the point of Miller's assessment on Graham. Jim completely overlooks Miller's conceded puzzle of taking another look at an Icon whose Public narrative is well established.

On many occasions I have praised Graham for the nurturing of the Faith of my Grandfather, analogous to the witness of Lois and Eunice in the New Testament, without which my faith heritage woulda been diminished.

Jim is like Peter here in the Garden, too quick to cut off a dissenting ear.

Again, Jim Misses the point and tries to invoke all his tired and weary shibboleths to fog further insight for the rest of us.

Jim could learn from consideration of Haneke's The White Ribbon, to help him understand some of the darker seductions of reaction to the 60's.

[Stephen Fox]

[Ed Pettibone]

[Jim]

[Ed Pettibone]

Ed: No doubt JIm, Central High school and a good deal of the Over the Rhine area in Cincy had serious problems in the 50's well before the 64 supreme court desegregation order, what does that have to do with this discussion. Cincinnati as you may know is sometimes referred to as, Northern Kentucky extended, and it is 115 miles up river from Louisville. Communities in KY across the river promote themselves as the south side of Cincinnati.

And where did I indicate that I hate UK? I simply said in my experience of observing college athletics in many venues, UK fans have been the most rude that I have encountered.

You are the one who introduced the idea of people being herded like animals. Please show me how busing students in Jefferson county Kentucky came close to the treatment of civil rights demonstrators in Birmingham.

I have an Idea that you cant help me with the question of when and where did B.G. "point out that 'the fact that legislating through the courts is anathema, either because you don't know or because you do know that you are taking something he said out of context.

And tell me Jim how can children overdo upholding the family name?

You Jim, are the one who moved the discussion from Graham to conditions in Louisville I simply pointed out that I have another opinion of those conditions based on my experience there.

[Stephen Fox]

Billy's Third Grandson;

Sometimes I get em mixxed up.
I think Stephan was the one who succeeded D.J. Kennedy

Here is Samford Law Grad, Basyle. I always thought I met Stephan once at Samford, but it mighta been Basyle

http://law.liberty.edu/index.cfm?PID=18205