Global Warming Thread VIII

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Re: Global Warming Thread VIII

Postby David Flick » Fri May 14, 2010 2:40 pm

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Re: Global Warming Thread VIII

Postby Ed Edwards » Sat May 15, 2010 10:21 pm

Interesting picture ...

In light of the three links on page 2,
Looks like to me the title should be:

Sen Jim Inhofe, R OK, being a Rush Limbaugh Groupie

As for me and my House, we will go by what the Bible says and not what the agnostic Rush Limbaugh sez.
Strange how Rush got so many of the Religious Right to support him?
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Re: Global Warming Thread VIII

Postby David Flick » Mon May 17, 2010 8:16 am

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Geologist Declares 'global warming is over' -- Warns U.S. Climate Conference of 'Looming Threat of Global Cooling'

CHICAGO -- A prominent U.S. geologist is urging the world to forget about global warming because global cooling has already begun.

Geologist Dr. Don Easterbrook's warning came in the form of a new scientific paper he presented to the 4th International Conference on Climate Change in Chicago on May 16, 2010. Dr. Easterbrook is an Emeritus Professor at Western Washington University who has authored eight books and 150 journal publications. Easterbrook's full resume is here.

Dr. Easterbrook joins many other scientists, peer-reviewed research and scientific societies warning of a coming global cooling. Easterbrook is presenting his findings alongside other man-made global warming skeptics at the three day conference in Chicago. Continue reading...
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Re: Global Warming Thread VIII

Postby KeithE » Wed May 19, 2010 9:14 am

Truth is David the globally averaged temp for this calendar year is above the high year of 1998 by about 0.2C. Varies slighly from month to month: Read here near bottom icluding explanation of use. True also for your beloved's satellite based measurements at Dr. Spencer's MSU data which you still have not acknowledged reading and using.

Plot that on your plot and you will see the IPCC projections given in 1998 are more correct (now at least) than Easterbrooks'.

Truth is also this was presented at a Heartland Insititute conference which is definitely a denialist group; and as usch it was not peer-reviewed across a spectrum of major scientists/climatologists - only this politically driven group of mostly retired professors in mostly non-related fields. Dr. Easterbrook's real expertise before becoming Emeritus status was geology and geomorphology (read his resume/publications). Some work in glaciology in the 2000's but zilch as a climatologist/global warming scientist.
Last edited by KeithE on Wed May 19, 2010 1:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Global Warming Thread VIII

Postby David Flick » Wed May 19, 2010 11:39 am

KeithE wrote:Truth is David the globally averaged temp for this calendar year is above the high year of 1998 by about 0.2C. Varies slighly from month to month: Read here near bottom icluding explanation of use. True also for your beloved's satellite based measurements at Dr. Spencer's MSU data which you still have not acknowledged reading and using.

Plot that on your plot and you will see the IPCC projections given in 1998 are more correct (now at least) than Easterbrooks'

Still believing the alarmists, eh? You're a decade behind the curve, Keith. Heck, Phil Jones, the discredited guru of Climategate fame declares that global warming ended in 1995. Not only that, according to one scientist who spoke at the Fourth International Conference on Climate Change in Chicago last week, a new Little Ice Age will begin in 4 years.

Incidentally, have you finished reading Spencer's book yet? What is your reaction to his discussion of "Global Warming Propaganda" on pages 31-36?

Here's something you might be interested in reading: Virginia's Cavalier Ethics: 'Mann used...hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars building on his work and the name he had created for himself with the Hockey Stick'
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Re: Global Warming Thread VIII

Postby Ed Pettibone » Wed May 19, 2010 11:36 pm

Ed: David, KeithE has been out of the hospital less than a week and had to go back to work immediately , let him rest.
But I am with you on the GW stuff.
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Re: Global Warming Thread VIII

Postby KeithE » Thu May 20, 2010 7:41 am

David Flick wrote:
KeithE wrote:Truth is David the globally averaged temp for this calendar year is above the high year of 1998 by about 0.2C. Varies slighly from month to month: Read here near bottom icluding explanation of use. True also for your beloved's satellite based measurements at Dr. Spencer's MSU data which you still have not acknowledged reading and using.

Plot that on your plot and you will see the IPCC projections given in 1998 are more correct (now at least) than Easterbrooks'

Still believing the alarmists, eh? You're a decade behind the curve, Keith. Heck, Phil Jones, the discredited guru of Climategate fame declares that global warming ended in 1995. Not only that, according to one scientist who spoke at the Fourth International Conference on Climate Change in Chicago last week, a new Little Ice Age will begin in 4 years.

Incidentally, have you finished reading Spencer's book yet? What is your reaction to his discussion of "Global Warming Propaganda" on pages 31-36?

Here's something you might be interested in reading: Virginia's Cavalier Ethics: 'Mann used...hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars building on his work and the name he had created for himself with the Hockey Stick'


In short that quote from Jones was taken out of context (I've posted it before but have not found it again). The CRU has been cleared of destroying any data by 3 independent investigative teams. Anyway the GISS digestion of the same temperature measurement data remains and you ought to be looking at (as well as ocean heat content / sea level rise) that before making wild claims that the whole earth is cooling and new ice age is occuring. Besides El Nino has returned putting more of that heat content into the air. Please look at Spencer's data from the AMSU and admit that the air temps have risen globally a lot since about July 2009. Have you looked? Are you haviing trouble doing the plotting? The near surface channel 04 is best to compare with the direct surface measurements (remarkable agreement with GISS and Hadley/CRU data as well as another satelllite-based sensor). Yes I know La Nina conditions leveled off temp rises from 2001 to 2008 but that has changed now and scientists know why this has happened.

The fact is that the temps have risen since 1900 at an unprecedented rate (6x that of any of the 135,00 year cycle) against a natural little ice age trend that should be decreasing temps according the the Miklanovtch cylces (known cause of ice ages).

No I have not finished Spencer's book. In hospital (between needles, breathing treatments, procedures, vital signs checks, and 50 visitors) I had little chance to read. When I did is was McLaren's A New Tye of Christianity. I really have much better things to read, but I'll try to read his cloud chapters (where he might get a little more technical and less polemic/sarcastic) when i get around to it - he might teach me something there.

Mann's paleoclimatic efforts were done in all sinceriety. The paleoclimatic (i.e. proxy data) result has shown that the early 1900's has seen a more rapid rise than anytime since 1000 (and that basic result remains after all proocessing fixes [reinstalling the really minor ans slow rolling MWP] and if the proxy data is limited to before 1960 or in some cases 1980) . I do not think the accuracy of absolute temps prove much of anything but the trends in the 0-1960 period have been instructive. Since 1850 we have much better measurements of temp than the proxy methods used by paleoclimatic studies (and they will admit as such). The fact of GW is not highly dependent on any paleoclimatic data.

I do notice that you continue to post articles from a very determined denialist camp (e.g. the Climate Depot article by none other than that lawyer from the CEI Chris Horner). They do not impress me at all. So if you are trying to change my mind, try some real uncommented on DATA.
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Re: Global Warming Thread VIII

Postby KeithE » Thu May 20, 2010 7:56 am

Ed Pettibone wrote:Ed: David, KeithE has been out of the hospital less than a week and had to go back to work immediately , let him rest.
But I am with you on the GW stuff.


Thanks Ed. I just took my BP after responding to David and it was 142/88. Not good. Wish I had done it right after I got up for comparson.

I trust that you avail yourself of other material than the denailist generated mega-spin machine that David continues to post.
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Re: Global Warming Thread VIII

Postby Sandy » Thu May 20, 2010 11:39 am

I don't call the stuff David quotes "denialist." I call it "junk science." There's a new word floating around for head in the sand, lack of reality, denial of the facts kind of stuff. It's being called "Palinesque."
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Re: Global Warming Thread VIII

Postby Jim » Thu May 20, 2010 1:30 pm

One year ago this month, the big climate news came from Germany and had to do with the fact that the tropics reached to both the North and South Pole some 47 million years ago, give or take a few millennia…without help from homo sapiens, one assumes, or steam engines or autos or jet planes or coal mines or oil rigs or even the torrid air emitted from Algore, the IPCC, and the self-discredited gang that put forth the “hockey stick” as the current equivalent of Moses’ rod. A few words upon the subject: Ode to Climate Change.
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Re: Global Warming Thread VIII

Postby Howard V » Thu May 20, 2010 8:04 pm

That is some Ode, Jim. Thanks! It ought to help us keep things in focus - but it probably will not.

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Re: Global Warming Thread VIII

Postby KeithE » Thu May 20, 2010 10:29 pm

Jim wrote:One year ago this month, the big climate news came from Germany and had to do with the fact that the tropics reached to both the North and South Pole some 47 million years ago, give or take a few millennia…without help from homo sapiens, one assumes, or steam engines or autos or jet planes or coal mines or oil rigs or even the torrid air emitted from Algore, the IPCC, and the self-discredited gang that put forth the “hockey stick” as the current equivalent of Moses’ rod. A few words upon the subject: Ode to Climate Change.

Yes and there were no human beings at the time - it was uninhabitable. Try it now and see what happens to our coastlines.
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Re: Global Warming Thread VIII

Postby Ed Edwards » Thu May 20, 2010 11:32 pm

Jim wrote:One year ago this month, the big climate news came from Germany and had to do with the fact that the tropics reached to both the North and South Pole some 47 million years ago, give or take a few millennia
...


Strangely, 'give or take a few millennia' is NOT correct. The Cycle for the great Shields of earth to go from tropics to polar takes about 32 million years to 40 million years. Which means that the correct statement is "give or takes 36 Million years +/- (plus or minus) 4 million years.

Do not confuse this Gelogical time with the human lifetime (six score and ten years) in which 50% of all the earth's petrol-chemicals have been squandered in running about willy-nilly IAW (in accordance with) the prophecy of Daniel 2:4

Dan 12:4 (KJV1611 Edition, e-sword.com edition):
But thou, O Daniel, shut vp the wordes, and seale the booke euen to the time of the ende: many shall runne to and fro, and knowledge shall bee increased.

Read my trailer/signature block which follows. 'Time of Trouble' = 'Great Tribulation'. That also is prophecy from Daniel:

Dan 12:1-3 (KJV1611 Edition, e-sword.com edition):
And at that time shall Michael stand vp, the great Prince which standeth for the children of thy people, and there shalbe a time of trouble, such as neuer was since there was a nation, euen to that same time: and at that time thy people shalbe deliuered, euery one that shalbe found written in the booke.
Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleepe in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to euerlasting life, and some to shame and euerlasting contempt.
Dan 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightnesse of the firmament, and they that turne many to righteousnesse, as the starres for euer and euer.
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Re: Global Warming Thread VIII

Postby Ed Edwards » Thu May 20, 2010 11:55 pm

BTW, about 250 MYA (million years ago) +/- 40 million -- what is now the state of Oklahoma was on the equator. What is now the bottom of the gulf of mexico (think oil spill) was a shallow sea filling that sea with lots of rotten veggies - which over the course of 250 Million years turned into the oil BP is not pumping to Florida :-) The Gulf of Mexico to be got veggies from the great shields of now Eastern Brazil and Western Africa ;-)

for the fundie still reading this board: recommend using the Paelo-geological charts instead of Genesis for finding more oil to exploit, more Natural Gas to burn, more heat to add to the earth. Reccoment using this text for what 'wise' means:

Dan 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightnesse of the firmament, and they that turne many to righteousnesse, as the starres for euer and euer.

Yes, he that winneth souls is still wise; she who is wise still winneth souls.
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Re: Global Warming Thread VIII

Postby Ed Edwards » Fri May 21, 2010 12:12 am

correction: that would be the Guyana Shield of what is now northern South America instead of the Brazilian Shield.
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Re: Global Warming Thread VIII

Postby David Flick » Fri May 21, 2010 5:11 am

Sandy wrote:I don't call the stuff David quotes "denialist." I call it "junk science." There's a new word floating around for head in the sand, lack of reality, denial of the facts kind of stuff. It's being called "Palinesque."

:lol: :roll:
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Re: Global Warming Thread VIII

Postby Jim » Fri May 21, 2010 8:16 am

KeithE wrote:
Jim wrote:One year ago this month, the big climate news came from Germany and had to do with the fact that the tropics reached to both the North and South Pole some 47 million years ago, give or take a few millennia…without help from homo sapiens, one assumes, or steam engines or autos or jet planes or coal mines or oil rigs or even the torrid air emitted from Algore, the IPCC, and the self-discredited gang that put forth the “hockey stick” as the current equivalent of Moses’ rod. A few words upon the subject: Ode to Climate Change.

Yes and there were no human beings at the time - it was uninhabitable. Try it now and see what happens to our coastlines.

Okay, I’ll disregard this one time the chinmoku you put on me long ago and suggest that you must mean that no one now lives in Brazil or the Congo, i.e., tropical areas you claim were uninhabitable back in the day. One supposes you’ve examined the data that backs your claim that homo sapiens cannot survive in a tropical climate but the folks that jive in Rio may disagree. You’re raining on their parade.
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Re: Global Warming Thread VIII

Postby KeithE » Fri May 21, 2010 8:24 am

Jim wrote:
KeithE wrote:
Jim wrote:One year ago this month, the big climate news came from Germany and had to do with the fact that the tropics reached to both the North and South Pole some 47 million years ago, give or take a few millennia…without help from homo sapiens, one assumes, or steam engines or autos or jet planes or coal mines or oil rigs or even the torrid air emitted from Algore, the IPCC, and the self-discredited gang that put forth the “hockey stick” as the current equivalent of Moses’ rod. A few words upon the subject: Ode to Climate Change.

Yes and there were no human beings at the time - it was uninhabitable. Try it now and see what happens to our coastlines.

Okay, I’ll disregard this one time the chinmoku you put on me long ago and suggest that you must mean that no one now lives in Brazil or the Congo, i.e., tropical areas you claim were uninhabitable back in the day. One supposes you’ve examined the data that backs your claim that homo sapiens cannot survive in a tropical climate but the folks that jive in Rio may disagree. You’re raining on their parade.


The coastlines and our inhabitation near them is the issue Jim.
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Re: Global Warming Thread VIII

Postby Jim » Fri May 21, 2010 8:49 am

Ed Edwards wrote:
Jim wrote:One year ago this month, the big climate news came from Germany and had to do with the fact that the tropics reached to both the North and South Pole some 47 million years ago, give or take a few millennia
...


Strangely, 'give or take a few millennia' is NOT correct. The Cycle for the great Shields of earth to go from tropics to polar takes about 32 million years to 40 million years. Which means that the correct statement is "give or takes 36 Million years +/- (plus or minus) 4 million years.

Whatever.

Do not confuse this Gelogical time with the human lifetime (six score and ten years) in which 50% of all the earth's petrol-chemicals have been squandered in running about willy-nilly IAW (in accordance with) the prophecy of Daniel 2:4

You really know how to hurt a guy. This means I've been dead more than 10 years and didn't know it. And no one knows the percentage of the earth's petro/chemicals that have been squandered willy nilly or otherwise since new measuring tools come on line all the time. This is especially true of Daniel whose primary fuel source was probably grain. They were still using the ephod or some such thing instead of the gallon in his day.

Dan 12:4 (KJV1611 Edition, e-sword.com edition):
But thou, O Daniel, shut vp the wordes, and seale the booke euen to the time of the ende: many shall runne to and fro, and knowledge shall bee increased.

Egad! People have been running to and fro and knowledge has been increased for millennia. Do you suppose the end has already come and we missed it?

Read my trailer/signature block which follows. 'Time of Trouble' = 'Great Tribulation'. That also is prophecy from Daniel:

Dan 12:1-3 (KJV1611 Edition, e-sword.com edition):
And at that time shall Michael stand vp, the great Prince which standeth for the children of thy people, and there shalbe a time of trouble, such as neuer was since there was a nation, euen to that same time: and at that time thy people shalbe deliuered, euery one that shalbe found written in the booke.
Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleepe in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to euerlasting life, and some to shame and euerlasting contempt.

Well...at least he didn't mention hell.

Dan 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightnesse of the firmament, and they that turne many to righteousnesse, as the starres for euer and euer.
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Re: Global Warming Thread VIII

Postby Jim » Fri May 21, 2010 12:01 pm

KE: The coastlines and our inhabitation near them is the issue Jim.

J: One more time. You obviously have decided that there were no oceans and other bodies of water during the time involved (all evaporated if ever present, making it hard or just different with respect to flora and fauna and any sort of primate needing a drink now and then, though by your lights incapable of inhabiting any part of the earth), though there must have been something between the Arctic and Antarctic Circles and their respective Poles besides ice in those temps. If you have no data supporting that, consider that the countries in the tropics today have well-defined and well-documented coastlines, interiors filled with gazillions of people under no threat of massive drowning and with plenty of inland water, not to mention actual survival in those temps.
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Re: Global Warming Thread VIII

Postby KeithE » Fri May 21, 2010 3:32 pm

Jim wrote:KE: The coastlines and our inhabitation near them is the issue Jim.

J: One more time. You obviously have decided that there were no oceans and other bodies of water during the time involved (all evaporated if ever present, making it hard or just different with respect to flora and fauna and any sort of primate needing a drink now and then, though by your lights incapable of inhabiting any part of the earth), though there must have been something between the Arctic and Antarctic Circles and their respective Poles besides ice in those temps. If you have no data supporting that, consider that the countries in the tropics today have well-defined and well-documented coastlines, interiors filled with gazillions of people under no threat of massive drowning and with plenty of inland water, not to mention actual survival in those temps.


Jim, I made no such assumptions. If the poles were to become tropics, the equator would be unlivably hot. The disruption alone would be enormous. Adaptation perhaps impossible. There would be many other ill effects. Do some reading in at the WG II ofthe IPCC to understand teh broad range of effects of GW. At least the Summary for Policymakers since that takes the least expertise to understand. Your instant presumed father of all wisdom take of things does not cut any mustard with me. Nor should it anyone else. You are not studied in the area and I regard what you think as hopeful argumentation to soothe your mind tinged with political satire (which, btw, you are really good at).
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Re: Global Warming Thread VIII

Postby Ed Edwards » Fri May 21, 2010 5:13 pm

Dan 12:4 (KJV1611 Edition, e-sword.com edition):
But thou, O Daniel, shut vp the wordes, and seale the booke euen to the time of the ende: many shall runne to and fro, and knowledge shall bee increased.

Jim: // Egad! People have been running to and fro and knowledge has been increased for millennia. Do you suppose the end has already come and we missed it? \\

I do not ascribe to the a-millennial viewpoint ;-) but your statement is a pretty good definition for the a-mill. x-millennial viewpoints relate the Second Coming of our Lord and Savior Messiah Jesus to the Millennial Messanic Reign of Jesus on the Throne of David. I just cannot see any thing but a physical & literal Second Coming of our Lord and Savior Messiah Jesus before a physical & literal Millennial Messanic Reign of Jesus.

Believing in the pre-millennial viewpoint, I think we aught to save some of earth's oil for the folks on earth during the time of a physical & literal Millennial Messanic Reign of Jesus. Amen.
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Re: Global Warming Thread VIII

Postby David Flick » Sat May 22, 2010 6:09 am

KeithE wrote:1In short that quote from Jones was taken out of context (I've posted it before but have not found it again). 2The CRU has been cleared of destroying any data by 3 independent investigative teams. Anyway the GISS digestion of the same temperature measurement data remains and you ought to be looking at (as well as ocean heat content / sea level rise) that before making wild claims that the whole earth is cooling and new ice age is occuring. Besides El Nino has returned putting more of that heat content into the air. 3Please look at Spencer's data from the AMSU and admit that the air temps have risen globally a lot since about July 2009. Have you looked? Are you haviing trouble doing the plotting? The near surface channel 04 is best to compare with the direct surface measurements (remarkable agreement with GISS and Hadley/CRU data as well as another satelllite-based sensor). Yes I know La Nina conditions leveled off temp rises from 2001 to 2008 but that has changed now and scientists know why this has happened.

1) No, he wasn't taken out of context. Not by any stretch of the imagination. If he had been taken out of context, he would surely have been vindicated and would have his job back at UAE CRU.

2) Who were the three " investigators? Care to document that? Then please tell me why he hasn't returned to his position at CRU?

3) You consistently twist Spencer's data to suit your views. Yes, I have looked at his data. I keep a close watch on his blog. Yesterday (5/20)he wrote an article on his blog, complete with a couple of graphs, wherein he declared that Global Average Sea Surface Temperatures [are] Poised for a Plunge. There's no way that you can twist his data to deny that a global cooling trend is in the works. That certainly flies in the face of global warming alarmism...

KeithE wrote:The fact is that the temps have risen since 1900 at an unprecedented rate (6x that of any of the 135,00 year cycle) against a natural little ice age trend that should be decreasing temps according the the Miklanovtch cylces (known cause of ice ages).

That statement is patently false, Keith. The notion that global temperatures have risen since 1900 at an unprecedented rate is a myth straight out of the alarmist propaganda book. And, of course, the myth is traceable to Michael Mann. In order to make his hockey stick show "unprecedented" warming in the later part of the 20th century, Mann had to completely wipe out the Medieval Warming Period. If he had included the MWP in his graph, it would have in no way resembled a hockey stick. The MWP is well documented. For a 400 year period between 900-1300 A.D. global temperatures were much warmer than they are today. Greenland was settled by the Vikings. The place didn't come by it's name by accident. This interactive map shows that the MWP was global in scope. (point your curser to any of the more than 30 graphs on the map that show the global temperatures were warmer than today.) The warming which has occurred during the latter part of the 20th century was not unprecedented.

KeithE wrote:No I have not finished Spencer's book. In hospital (between needles, breathing treatments, procedures, vital signs checks, and 50 visitors) I had little chance to read. When I did is was McLaren's A New Tye of Christianity. I really have much better things to read, but I'll try to read his cloud chapters (where he might get a little more technical and less polemic/sarcastic) when i get around to it - he might teach me something there.

I'm sorry to hear about your recent stint in the hospital. Needles, breathing treatments, procedures, and vital signs checks are no certainly no fun. Been there and done that myself having experienced two total hip replacement surgeries. But those 50 hospital visitors were great to hear about. I don't think I had more than 15 visitors during each of my surgeries. But then my surgeries were in Oklahoma City, which was many miles from where my visitors lived. Anyway, I'm praying for you to have a full and complete recovery.

About the book, it's clear to see that you haven't spent much time even browsing the book. There isn't any polemic or sarcasm in this book. And it's far more technical than you give him credit. Spencer is clearly one of the leading climate scientists in the world, especially here in the US. in the introduction (p. XXVII),...
Spencer wrote:For those who have read my first book, Climate Confusion, this book contains new and important science that supports my view that the Earth is much more resilient than most scientists claim. You might say that, rather than "hot, flat, and crowded,' I believe the Earth to be cool, round, and spacious. I hope this book will lead to a better-informed public that can more critically evaluate the claim that adding carbon dioxide to the atmosphere Is a menace to life on Earth. Whether carbon dioxide regulations or laws are still being debated as you read this or have already been implemented, you will be better equipped to influence the political process and to help prevent or rescind misguided and dangerous laws or regulations on the production of carbon dioxide.

I also hope to spur other scientists to investigate my claims on their own, and to speak out if they agree with me that the last few decades of myopic global warming research has resulted in the greatest scientific blunder in history.
I don't know whether it will take two years or twenty, but I predict that at some point in the future we will realize that the fear of catastrophic climate change was the worst case of mass hysteria the world has ever known.

I believe Spencer is correct. At some point in the future we will realize that the fear of catastrophic climate change was the worst case of mass hysteria the world has ever known.

KeithE wrote:1Mann's paleoclimatic efforts were done in all sinceriety. 2The paleoclimatic (i.e. proxy data) result has shown that the early 1900's has seen a more rapid rise than anytime since 1000 (and that basic result remains after all proocessing fixes [reinstalling the really minor ans slow rolling MWP] and if the proxy data is limited to before 1960 or in some cases 1980) . I do not think the accuracy of absolute temps prove much of anything but the trends in the 0-1960 period have been instructive. Since 1850 we have much better measurements of temp than the proxy methods used by paleoclimatic studies (and they will admit as such). 3The fact of GW is not highly dependent on any paleoclimatic data.

1) Not true. Mann was seeking to make a name for himself. He may have been "sincere" but as we all know, it's possible to be sincerely wrong. If he was indeed "sincere," he surely pulled the wool over the eyes of the gullible public. And he made a mint along the way, collecting untold thousands of dollars while at the University of Virginia and at Penn State University. You can easily google literally hundreds of documented articles that show his hockey stick was a fraud from the get go. Just yesterday,(5/20) Dr. Will Happer, a scientist at Princeton University, testified before the House Select Committee on Energy Independence and Global Warming. Part of his testimony included information about Mann's hockey stick. Here's what he said:

      Hockey Stick: I was very surprised when I first saw the celebrated “hockey stick curve,” in the Third Assessment Report of the IPCC. Both the little ice age and the medieval warm period were gone, and the newly revised temperature of the world since the year 1000 had suddenly become absolutely flat until the last hundred years when it shot up like the blade on a hockey stick. This was far from an obscure detail, and the hockey stick was trumpeted around the world as evidence that the end was near. We now know that the hockey stick has nothing to do with reality but was the result of incorrect handling of proxy temperature records and incorrect statistical analysis. There really was a little ice age and there really was a medieval warm period that was as warm or warmer than today. I bring up the hockey stick as a particularly clear example that the IPCC summaries for policy makers are not dispassionate statements of the facts of climate change. Source...
2) Again, that's not true. Year 1000 A.D. was toward the beginning of the of the Medieval Warming Period. It was much warmer then and thereafter than it is today. There has been no unpredented warming in rcecent times. Certainly not in the last decade inasmuch as global warming --what little there was-- ended eleven years ago. (cf. my comments about MWP above)

3) The fact is that there is no GW occurring now.

KeithE wrote:1I do notice that you continue to post articles from a very determined denialist camp (e.g. the Climate Depot article by none other than that lawyer from the CEI Chris Horner). 2They do not impress me at all. So if you are trying to change my mind, try some real uncommented on DATA.

1) Horner is a "determined" skeptic who happens to have the facts correct on the matter.

2) Keith, there's no such thing as "uncommented on DATA". All the climate data that has ever been produced, both the alarmist data and factual data, has received some sort of commentary. It's ridiculous to assume that anyone, you and me included, could come up "uncommented data" to support an argument in the climate debate. That said, there's a lot of bogus climate DATA floating around out there. Most of it is from the AGW alarmists (i.e. Al Gore, James Hansen, Michael Mann, the RealClimate.Org website, and friends). I'm certainly not surprised that you're unimpressed. That would be par for the course... :D
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Re: Global Warming Thread VIII

Postby KeithE » Sun May 23, 2010 10:16 pm

There is so much falsity in what you have written into post above, I merely want to say - my rejoinders to most all of these falsities have been posted before. I have far more important things to do with my life that repeatably correct the uncorrectable David Flick and his denialist sources. Try reading Skeptical Science for the truth and straightfoward answers to denialist arguments.

BTW it is not Spencer's blog I want to you to study, it's his DATA at AMSU DATA. As always, follow the directions.

David, your cohorts are threatening real scientists. Read all three pages
Informed by Data.
Driven by the SPIRIT and JESUS’s Example.
Promoting the Kingdom of GOD on Earth.
http://www.weatherly.org/discoverycenter
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Re: Global Warming Thread VIII

Postby Bruce Gourley » Mon May 24, 2010 12:05 am

KeithE wrote:There is so much falsity in what you have written into post above, I merely want to say - my rejoinders to most all of these falsities have been posted before. I have far more important things to do with my life that repeatably correct the uncorrectable David Flick and his denialist sources. Try reading Skeptical Science for the truth and straightfoward answers to denialist arguments.

BTW it is not Spencer's blog I want to you to study, it's his DATA at AMSU DATA. As always, follow the directions.

David, your cohorts are threatening real scientists. Read all three pages


The tide has already turned in the course of history, it seems to me. Only a small handful of scientists (and even few Republicans in D.C. these days) deny the human impact upon climate change, and they are merely recycling false data and arguments while the world continues to heat up. The denial machine will one day be held accountable for their reliance on false data and arguments, just as the Catholic Church was eventually held accountable for denying the science of Galileo and Copernicus.
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