The great Global Warming collapse

[William Thornton]

[KeithE]

[William Thornton]

Hey...I just wanted to see if the new politics forum worked. It does.

I'll let David take over from here...until the next GW false claim hits. I give it a week or so.

[KeithE]

[David Flick]

[William Thornton]

[Jonathan]

[KeithE]

[Jonathan]

As an engineer, I've learned that data is only as good as the system that delivers the data. At the moment, the AGW argument has lost too much credibility for me to be willing to spend time trying to sift through what is and what is not data that I can trust.

[David Flick]

[David Flick]

[David Flick]

[KeithE]

Don't have time for more refutation about the points David continues to bring up again and again and seldom (if ever) interacts with the DATA I show.

But is the IPCC apology for the Himalayan error.

Note that the conclusions still STANDS. And as I poinited out earlier, even NOW the effects on agriculture are being felt. (I'm tired of repeatiing stuff, so back up some posts for that information). Looking at Figure 10.6 in the WGII report (referred to in the paragraph that had the typo), one can see that the retreat lines from 1780 to 2000 would not lead to a total dissappearance by 2035 (not even by 2220 if one were to assume a linear retreat).

I too took a vacation 2-3 years ago not to Alaska but to Glacier National Park/Banff. The rangers at Glacier National Park pointed out the the glaciers have retreated very visibly during their employment at the Park. There were vista points along the road over the pass that were expressly for seeing glaciers. Often (more often that not as I remember) you couldn't see any glacier from those vista points and placards pointed that out. Grinnell Glacier has lost 90% of its mass.

click on glacier name on right column.

Not all areas have been hit this hard but some have. Alaska has some examples of advancing glaciers.
Wiki has a useful summary of all areas of the globe.


To write off this effect of global warming based on this error (i believe unintentional), is clearly wrong headed. One must look beyond the error to the true facts. Globally glaciers are retreating and that loss is accelerating slightly since 1960.

[David Flick]

[David Flick]

[KeithE]

For all the talk herein, the fact remains that since about Jan 11 until Feb 11, the globally averaged temps (as measured by the UAH MSU unit as recorded on the GW skeptic Dr. Spencer's website) is the highest for any similar date since 1999 - Dr. Spencer starts this data in July 1998 (just coincidentally the highest month on MSU's record).


Check it yourself by clicking on "global average temperature trend" yellow link and plot whatever years or atmsopheric level you want by selectng years, the layer and then hit "redraw". Story is the same.

The USA represents only 1.4-1.5% of the global surface area.

So much for argument by locale.

[David Flick]

[David Flick]

[David Flick]

[David Flick]

[David Flick]

[KeithE]

[Jonathan]

To recap:
- there are legitimate questions about recording stations going unanswered.
- there are legitimate questions about original data (where is it, where did it come from, etc...)
- central players on the pro-AGW side are retreating from the formerly hard IPCC position (Prof. Jones saying that, for 15 years, there has been no statistically significant warming...)
- we have loads of graphs based on suspect data.

Why, again, should I be convinced to support artificially high prices for energy?

[KeithE]

[David Flick]