Needless Deaths Compared - Abortion the Largest

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Needless Deaths Compared - Abortion the Largest

Postby KeithE » Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:05 am

(Thought I'd move this comparison of needless deaths material here, because there was a major thread drift in the “More Sleaze in Trump’s Orbit” topic)

Although abortions are declining, they are still very prevalent: >1,000,000/year.

Image

True, fetuses are not yet full human beings but they are at very least potential people! True, many mothers don’t want their child, but most of those aborted fetuses would have survive pregnancy and delivery. Maintaining a life is more important than avoiding caring for a life (albeit that care from a mother/father may be substandard).

--------- To put into perspective with other unneeded deaths/year ----------------

More than 70,000 deaths in the 2003 European heat wave; 60,000 deaths/yr for climate disasters now, and 250,000 deaths/yr expected by 2050 (38,000 due to heat exposure in elderly people, 48,000 due to diarrhoea, 60,000 due to malaria, and 95,000 due to childhood undernutrition.)
Source:Climate change and health.

More than gun deaths per year (38,000/year)
Image

And three orders of magnitude more than the <1000 deaths/year in military actions.

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OCO refers to operational settings like Afghanistan and Iraq; Non-OCO means on military bases in the US. So we see very few are being killed these days in the needless overseas deployments (probably down to 5 orders of magnitude less than abortions/yr). 1000 deaths may be just a natural level of deaths (even young people die).

But these military statistics does not include those suffering from PTSD and suicides due to PTSD (~5000 deaths/year). Source: 35 Engrossing PTSD Suicide Statistics.

So I'm still in favor of quick, responsible withdrawals from the Middle East and certainly not getting into a war with Iran.

--------------------------------

But to summarize, abortions are a bigger problem than climate disasters/guns/PTSD deaths combined.

But all of these needless deaths should be addressed (at least mitigated) via legislation:
a) Overturn Roe vs Wade, slowly enhance penalties for doctors/mothers/fathers as we transition to an abortion free nation
b) Enact universal background checks with teeth, ban assault guns; neutralize the NRA
c) Re-engage with the Paris Accords and convert rapidly to fossil-free energy maybe though a carbon tax
d) Withdrawal from the Middle East
e) Fund substantial new mental health care for returning vets (coupled with infrastructure jobs)
f) Stop the provocation in Iran; reinstate the Iran Accords that were working
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Re: Needless Deaths Compared - Abortion the Largest

Postby William Thornton » Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:26 am

Very commendable. Makes you a demon to all of the prez candidates, though.

I'm not optimistic that abortion can be so phased out. Possibly scotus could reject Wade v roe and kick it to the states
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Re: Needless Deaths Compared - Abortion the Largest

Postby Sandy » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:29 am

WIlliam Thornton wrote:I'm not optimistic that abortion can be so phased out. Possibly scotus could reject Wade v roe and kick it to the states.


Once the threshold was crossed in 1973 there was no going back. A political solution isn't feasible and I doubt that it is possible. The Republicans have had several windows of opportunity since 1980 to appoint enough pro-life justices to overturn the Roe decision which would kick it back to the states. But it is too valuable as a "blame the Democrats" political tool for them to actually go through with that, and there are enough pro-choice Republicans around to keep that from happening. Kicking it back to the states would mean that abortion would still be available in most of them, with only a few actually eliminating it. Perhaps, back in the 80's when the voters were evenly divided on the issue it could have been done but the pro-choice position is now a pretty solid majority. The current SCOTUS gets labelled as having taken a conservative turn but both of Trump's appointees told the senate, under oath, that they believe Roe is "the settled law of the land." That's also Roberts' position so I don't anticipate overturning the decision any time soon.

Catholics and Evangelicals share similar opinions on the matter and this would be an excellent opportunity to do some real good if they would work together to provide some real ministry to those who are considering abortion. It takes resources, something that both groups are loathe to spend on real ministry. Evangelicals have had some support for a few scattered programs to help here and there and give the issue lots of lip service but little money. If they put up the kind of resources Planned Parenthood collects, not counting what they get from the government, they could make a real difference and it would go a long way toward lowering the abortion total.

The Christian community also needs to do a much better job of connecting faith to behavior. The most active Christian families have their kids in some kind of church discipleship or activity a couple of hours a week, compared to seven hours a day in the public education system. And a lot of that church time is banana splits and balloons, not effective discipleship. There are never any guarantees, but it does seem that those who experience the life transformation of Christian faith are far less likely to engage in behavior that would result in an abortion.

Making a pro-life position on abortion into a political platform as a single issue decision has only helped a lot of inept, stupid, incompetent politicians get elected.
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Re: Needless Deaths Compared - Abortion the Largest

Postby KeithE » Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:58 pm

Sandy wrote:
WIlliam Thornton wrote:I'm not optimistic that abortion can be so phased out. Possibly scotus could reject Wade v roe and kick it to the states.


Once the threshold was crossed in 1973 there was no going back. A political solution isn't feasible and I doubt that it is possible. The Republicans have had several windows of opportunity since 1980 to appoint enough pro-life justices to overturn the Roe decision which would kick it back to the states. But it is too valuable as a "blame the Democrats" political tool for them to actually go through with that, and there are enough pro-choice Republicans around to keep that from happening. Kicking it back to the states would mean that abortion would still be available in most of them, with only a few actually eliminating it. Perhaps, back in the 80's when the voters were evenly divided on the issue it could have been done but the pro-choice position is now a pretty solid majority. The current SCOTUS gets labelled as having taken a conservative turn but both of Trump's appointees told the senate, under oath, that they believe Roe is "the settled law of the land." That's also Roberts' position so I don't anticipate overturning the decision any time soon.

Catholics and Evangelicals share similar opinions on the matter and this would be an excellent opportunity to do some real good if they would work together to provide some real ministry to those who are considering abortion. It takes resources, something that both groups are loathe to spend on real ministry. Evangelicals have had some support for a few scattered programs to help here and there and give the issue lots of lip service but little money. If they put up the kind of resources Planned Parenthood collects, not counting what they get from the government, they could make a real difference and it would go a long way toward lowering the abortion total.

The Christian community also needs to do a much better job of connecting faith to behavior. The most active Christian families have their kids in some kind of church discipleship or activity a couple of hours a week, compared to seven hours a day in the public education system. And a lot of that church time is banana splits and balloons, not effective discipleship. There are never any guarantees, but it does seem that those who experience the life transformation of Christian faith are far less likely to engage in behavior that would result in an abortion.

Making a pro-life position on abortion into a political platform as a single issue decision has only helped a lot of inept, stupid, incompetent politicians get elected.


As is often the case, I am not offering what I think will happen, but should happen and gives reasons why I think so. I know that most generally progressive folks like myself do not think Roe vs Wade should be overturned, but I have a heart for the “least of these”. I also know most women (even conservative women) do not think Roe vs Wade should be overturned.

But you are right (in your red highlighted text above) that the Republicans want this as a political ploy to cement the Evangelical vote.
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Re: Needless Deaths Compared - Abortion the Largest

Postby Haruo » Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:23 am

Keith, in your initial pile of graphs and figures, could you go through and label each one "US" or "World". Makes a huge difference. Particularly in the climate change list. If those are projected US climate change deaths, I think the malaria figure is a bit high. But if they are worldwide figures, they're not meaningfully comparable to a lot of your other stats.
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Re: Needless Deaths Compared - Abortion the Largest

Postby KeithE » Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:44 pm

Haruo wrote:Keith, in your initial pile of graphs and figures, could you go through and label each one "US" or "World". Makes a huge difference. Particularly in the climate change list. If those are projected US climate change deaths, I think the malaria figure is a bit high. But if they are worldwide figures, they're not meaningfully comparable to a lot of your other stats.

Thanks for paying attention.

Th abortion, guns deaths and military deaths are all US only. The climate deaths (250,000/yr estimate) is worldwide. Since the US population is 4.27% of the world’s population, ~ 10, 675 deaths in he USA is expected due to climate change by 2050. Of course it could be much less if the health system and AC systems remain better in the US by that time.
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