The Great Democratic Debate Circus, Part One

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Re: The Great Democratic Debate Circus, Part One

Postby Rvaughn » Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:28 am

William Thornton wrote:Jesus wasn't a socialist, nor an illegal immigrant, nor a lgbtqeieio apologist, nor a commie, nor a mod/ lib...
Haruo wrote:Nor was he a fascist, nor a real estate mogul, nor a capitalist, nor a resurgent con-man, nor a neo-fundie ...
Jesus is the Christ, the Lord, the Son of God, not a capitalist, communist, socialist, or any other “ist” of the political flavors we often prefer. All miss the mark, looking for him to side with us rather than trying get on his side. Most often in attempting to conscript Jesus, we fail to follow Jesus.

Regarding the presidential candidates, Senator Kamala Harris of California is on a bit of a hot seat regarding child sexual abuse and the Roman Catholic Church. Joey Piscitelli, the Northern California spokesman for the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests (SNAP), says that Harris was unresponsive to the issue of the Catholic child abuse scandal when she was San Francisco’s district attorney and California’s attorney general. So far, the campaign response has been general – that Harris supported child sex abuse victims, while not directly addressing the Catholic Church scandal. Regarding the Catholic Church specifically, Piscitelli said “She did nothing.” Will be interesting to see whether this gains any traction.
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Re: The Great Democratic Debate Circus, Part One

Postby Sandy » Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:27 am

Rvaughn wrote:Most often in attempting to conscript Jesus, we fail to follow Jesus.


Amen!

It's blasphemy to try and figure out how Jesus would vote. That's making your own Jesus.
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Re: The Great Democratic Debate Circus, Part One

Postby KeithE » Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:52 am

Sandy wrote:
Rvaughn wrote:Most often in attempting to conscript Jesus, we fail to follow Jesus.


Amen!

It's blasphemy to try and figure out how Jesus would vote. That's making your own Jesus.

It is not blasphemy to note that Jesus favored/helped the poor and had empathy for the sick and marginalized. How that translates into today’s political categories is not obvious.

I have no idea how Jesus would come down on economic issues (what would be the best way to raise all boats, but He would insist hat the economic system not be tuned to help the rich as it is today). Also Jesus would side with pacifists and not have a “nationalistic” perspective. Not sure about health care, guns, climate change.
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Re: The Great Democratic Debate Circus, Part One

Postby Sandy » Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:15 am

KeithE wrote:
Sandy wrote:
Rvaughn wrote:Most often in attempting to conscript Jesus, we fail to follow Jesus.


Amen!

It's blasphemy to try and figure out how Jesus would vote. That's making your own Jesus.

It is not blasphemy to note that Jesus favored/helped the poor and had empathy for the sick and marginalized. How that translates into today’s political categories is not obvious.

I have no idea how Jesus would come down on economic issues (what would be the best way to raise all boats, but He would insist hat the economic system not be tuned to help the rich as it is today). Also Jesus would side with pacifists and not have a “nationalistic” perspective. Not sure about health care, guns, climate change.


It's not blasphemy to determine, from Jesus' teaching and ministry, conclusions about issues. What I would interpret as blasphemy is attempting to decide which candidate he would support in an election, or to project a specific position from an issue onto his character and person.
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Re: The Great Democratic Debate Circus, Part One

Postby Sandy » Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:57 am

After reading William's evaluation, I'd say the debates were highly successful in getting their message across. They did a good job to generate that much grumbling. ; - )

The Democrats are always going to identify with issues and campaign to move one they think is particularly pressing to a point where they become personally identified with it. Even with the anti-Trump vote being at the top of the priority list, the responses stuck more with how to resolve problems related to the issues than with childish name calling and finger pointing. They addressed specific issues at the top of voters' concerns list. Health care, particularly saving as much of the ACA as possible, was one of the top reasons why the Democrats flipped the House in 2018 and flipped so many governorships and state houses, right up there with "do something about Trump." The candidates repeatedly hit on the themes of health care reform, tax structure inequities, jobs in manufacturing sectors Trump has failed to deliver (coal, the auto industry), and continued racism resulting in social inequities and voter suppression. Everything there is 50% or more on the upside of voter interests.
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Re: The Great Democratic Debate Circus, Part One

Postby David Flick » Thu Jun 27, 2019 6:36 pm

William wrote:Inslee, never heard of him.
    David Flick wrote:Same here. Had to do an internet search to find out who he is. Mowed my lawn during the debate. So I'll have to go watch it on re-runs..., or not. As an Okie, having never heard of Inslee, I'm cognizant of the fact that probably nobody on this forum has ever heard of Kevin Stitt
        Sandy wrote:I have to admit, I hadn't heard of him until he became governor of Oklahoma. Native American, or so I heard. Relative of yours?

            Bingo! Gotcha! You hadn't heard of Governor Stitt until you looked him up in Wikipedia last night. Nah, he isn't a relative of mine. He just happens to be a citizen of the same tribal nation as mine...
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    Re: The Great Democratic Debate Circus, Part One

    Postby Haruo » Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:48 pm

    David, what sort of spyware do you use to find out whether Sandy had heard of Stitt till last night? I probably had heard of him before, but the knowledge hadn't stuck, so your Wikipedia is more or less on target if aimed at me, but you aimed it at Sandy. Or are you so anti-liberal that you think he and I are interchangeable?
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    Re: The Great Democratic Debate Circus, Part One

    Postby Sandy » Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:36 pm

    David Flick wrote: Bingo! Gotcha! You hadn't heard of Governor Stitt until you looked him up in Wikipedia last night. Nah, he isn't a relative of mine. He just happens to be a citizen of the same tribal nation as mine...


    Close enough. But no, not Wikipedia. When it comes to politics, I mostly upload the New York Times.

    Read it in January, didn't remember the name but your photo triggered the reference.
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    Re: The Great Democratic Debate Circus, Part One

    Postby David Flick » Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:57 am

    Haruo wrote:(1)David, what sort of spyware do you use to find out whether Sandy had heard of Stitt till last night? (2)I probably had heard of him before, but the knowledge hadn't stuck, (3)so your Wikipedia is more or less on target if aimed at me, but you aimed it at Sandy. (4)Or are you so anti-liberal that you think he and I are interchangeable?

      1. I have no spyware. I used logical deduction. Wikipedia is the only major source I know that reveals the fact that Gov. Stitt Is member of the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma.
      2. I have no doubt that you had probably had heard of him before, but the knowledge hadn't stuck. That's feasible.
      3. I acknowledge that Wikipedia is a terrible source for accurate information about Politics and Global Warming/climate change. But my reference to Wiki was not directed at you or Sandy. It was simply to point out that Sandy couldn't have known that Gov. Stitt was Native American without reading the Wiki article. Unless, of course, he read it in minor sources such as the Cherokee Phoenix. Or at Indianz.Com. Or at Splinter News. My hunch is that Sandy doesn't know anything about the latter three sources.
      4. I acknowledge that I'm strongly biased toward Conservatism, but I'm not what you would call, "anti-liberal." I do oppose liberalism and all the wild stuff being spewed today in liberal politics. I certainly don't think you and Sandy are interchangeable. You do, however, share much of the same liberalism that floats around these days.
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    Re: The Great Democratic Debate Circus, Part One

    Postby David Flick » Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:23 am

    David Flick wrote: Bingo! Gotcha! You hadn't heard of Governor Stitt until you looked him up in Wikipedia last night. Nah, he isn't a relative of mine. He just happens to be a citizen of the same tribal nation as mine...
      Sandy wrote:Close enough. But no, not Wikipedia. When it comes to politics, I mostly upload the New York Times.

        How about revealing the source where you "heard" Gov. Stitt was Native American? I'd be interested in knowing how you learned that salient fact. Did you read it in the New York Times?
      Read it in January, didn't remember the name but your photo triggered the reference.

        How about sharing the January "reference" where you saw saw Gov. Stitt's photo? Give us a link.
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    Re: The Great Democratic Debate Circus, Part One

    Postby Sandy » Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:06 am

    https://splinternews.com/reckoning-with ... 1830319375

    Never heard of splinternews until I saw the link in the Times.
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    Re: The Great Democratic Debate Circus, Part One

    Postby David Flick » Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:59 am

    Sandy wrote:https://splinternews.com/reckoning-with ... 1830319375

    Never heard of splinternews until I saw the link in the Times.

      Stands to reason. Splinter News is a far left-wing site similar to the NYT...
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    Re: The Great Democratic Debate Circus, Part One

    Postby Joseph Patrick » Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:19 pm

    From Gerry Milligan...after following this thread, I am happy to learn that Earnest T. Bass is still alive and kicking. I leave it to your imagination as to which posters most resemble Earnest.
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    Re: The Great Democratic Debate Circus, Part One

    Postby Haruo » Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:19 pm

    David Flick wrote:Splinter News is a far left-wing site similar to the NYT...

    So, on a spectrum from Breitbart at 0 to 10 for say Socialistaction.org, what sort of leftism rating would you give the NYT, David? I find calling the NYT far-left just a bit loony myself. What number would you give Fox News, for that matter, and CNN, and ABC?
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    Re: The Great Democratic Debate Circus, Part One

    Postby Joseph Patrick » Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:57 pm

    David Flick wrote:
    William wrote:Inslee, never heard of him.
      David Flick wrote:Same here. Had to do an internet search to find out who he is. Mowed my lawn during the debate. So I'll have to go watch it on re-runs..., or not. As an Okie, having never heard of Inslee, I'm cognizant of the fact that probably nobody on this forum has ever heard of Kevin Stitt
          Sandy wrote:I have to admit, I hadn't heard of him until he became governor of Oklahoma. Native American, or so I heard. Relative of yours?

              Bingo! Gotcha! You hadn't heard of Governor Stitt until you looked him up in Wikipedia last night. Nah, he isn't a relative of mine. He just happens to be a citizen of the same tribal nation as mine...


      From Gerry Milligan, is that not the man that the former sportscaster turned mayor of OKC called Bull Stitt?
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      Re: The Great Democratic Debate Circus, Part One

      Postby David Flick » Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:44 pm

      Joseph Patrick wrote:From Gerry Milligan, is that not the man that the former sportscaster turned mayor of OKC called Bull Stitt?

        Yes it is, Gerry. And Oklahoma voters reacted negatively to a crazy political commercial.. It blew up in the face of the detractors. Former Oklahoma Attorney General, Drew Edmonson (D), most likely had the governorship won until Mick Cornett, the Republican leading contender, came up with the looney "Bull Stitt" commercial. Cornett's commercial doomed his campaign. Although he handily won the Republican primary, Gov. Stitt won the primary runoff.
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      Re: The Great Democratic Debate Circus, Part One

      Postby David Flick » Sat Jun 29, 2019 12:06 am

      David Flick wrote:Splinter News is a far left-wing site similar to the NYT...
        Haruo wrote:
          So, on a spectrum from Breitbart at 0 to 10 for say Socialistaction.org, what sort of leftism rating would you give the NYT, David? I find calling the NYT far-left just a bit loony myself. What number would you give Fox News, for that matter, and CNN, and ABC?

              Haruo's rating scale (Breitbart 0 to Socialistaction.org 10)
                NYT: 9
                Fox: 4
                ABC: 10
                CNN: 13

              Flick's truth meter of the same four media sites (opinion)
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      Re: The Great Democratic Debate Circus, Part One

      Postby Sandy » Sat Jun 29, 2019 11:03 am

      Personal preference aside, whenever I hear that something was on Fox News of any importance, I look up the fact checkers who for the most part tend to lean conservative. Fox News never gets the facts straight. If a Fox news report said grass is green, I'd have to go outside and make sure. That's how bad they are.

      The Times is the most reputable news source in the world. To date, when it is cited and someone here criticizes it because it is the New York Times, no evidence to counter their accuracy has ever been offered, just vague, nebulous opinion. Apparently, it's readership gives it tremendous credibility. 130 million readers, and growing exponentially during the Trump era.

      For a long time, you could read the Times online for free. But the printed newspaper business is shrinking and revenue from print ads is dropping everywhere. The Times, along with the Washington Post, have transitioned to being electronic newsrooms with more circulation than a paper could give them, but now you have to subscribe to read the content. I think the "first click free" policy is passing on. I live in a 55+ senior high rise now, so I go out on the balcony in the morning with my coffee and "read the paper" on my laptop. I subscribe to the Times, the Post, and the Arizona Daily Star. MSNBC I watch by podcast on my phone.

      I still get my newspaper fix thumbing through an actual paper, which I enjoy, by ordering my hometown newspaper via print copy through the mail. It is a weekly, so it doesn't really matter that it is a week old when it arrives. And I get the print copy of the Chicago Tribune on Sunday.

      https://www.marketwatch.com/story/new-y ... 2019-02-06

      https://www.businessinsider.com/the-new ... rs-2017-12
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