The Candidate's Positions

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Re: The Candidate's Positions

Postby KeithE » Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:00 pm

Sandy wrote:
Rvaughn wrote:
Sandy wrote:Semantics.
What semantics? That neither AOC nor RFBO really believe that there is a climate crisis that must be addressed boldly or else will end by destroying the planet?


Semantics that the way David Flick characterized their remarks was, as stated, taken completely out of context. Both are concerned about it, both believe it is a crisis and have the weight of evidence on their side and both believe that there will be an ultimate end to it that will be debilitating and disastrous. The facts bear that out. If one of the major sources of oxygen production on the planet is slowly being destroyed, it stands to reason that oxygen production on the planet will also be destroyed. Then where do we get air to breathe? That's not doomsday, nut case end of the world stuff like some of the outrageous eschatology of the religious right, that's an observable fact. I'd use the analogy "you can deny that until you are blue in the face" and that would be literally true.


Don’t think oxygen reduction in the air is a serious problem, Sandy

https://www.livescience.com/56219-earth-atmospheric-oxygen-levels-declining.html

Atmospheric oxygen levels have declined over the past 1 million years, although not nearly enough to trigger any major problems for life on Earth, a new study finds.
....
The new estimates suggest that atmospheric oxygen levels have fallen by 0.7 percent over the past 800,000 years.


By contrast CO2 has risen by 32% in the last 64 years - very sudden.

Image

Now the oxygen level in the ocean is of somewhat more concern.

Guest post: How global warming is causing ocean oxygen levels to fall

Direct measurements show the amount of oxygen in the global oceans has decreased by around 2% over the past 50 years.
....

Dangers of deoxygenation
At the ocean surface, oxygen is supplied through air-sea gas exchange and from photosynthesising marine plants. For the rest of the oceans, the distribution of oxygen is, therefore, governed by a delicate balance of supply from the surface via circulation and mixing and consumption by marine life through respiration.

Across the global oceans today, there are various pockets with low or no oxygen – including parts of the tropical oceans off California, Peru and Namibia and the subsurface waters of the Arabian Sea.

“Oxygen minimum zones” are a natural phenomenon, caused by the combined action of sluggish ocean circulation and the decomposition of organic matter sinking out of productive surface areas often associated with ocean upwelling regions.

The oxygen levels in these zones are low enough to be lethal to most marine life. Low oxygen regions can also release nitrous oxide (N2O) – a potent greenhouse gas – into the atmosphere.

Research suggests that these low-oxygen regions are expanding, which could have “dramatic” biological, ecological, economic and climatic consequences.

And the risk of deoxygenation is not just limited to these specific zones. Reducing oxygen levels is occurring at all oxygen concentrations in all ocean basins and affects a growing number of coastal regions.


Ocean acidity and temperature/heat content (caused for the most part by CO2) are far greater issues for ocean health than deoxygenation. Read CO2 concentrations drive rising temperatures and acidification for the bad effects.

Sandy, I appreciate your support, but try to be sure of your scientific claims.
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Re: The Candidate's Positions

Postby Sandy » Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:32 pm

I stand corrected, though you might want to take a look at point #3.

https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/ ... .2007.0027
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Re: The Candidate's Positions

Postby KeithE » Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:35 am

Sandy wrote:I stand corrected, though you might want to take a look at point #3.

https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/ ... .2007.0027


Thanks. You learned something.

Good article about the Amazon deforestation which is an important secondary cause of global warming to that of ghg emissions. Figure 2 copied below provides much understanding of feedbacks.

Image

I learned about the effects of mineral dusts (Section 5) which I have never heard before.

Not sure what you wanted me to take from “point 3”. Did you mean Section 3 (Contribution of forest degradation to rising CO2 and global warming)? It was a good summary of how deforestation has and will continue to have the effect of raising CO2 levels.
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Re: The Candidate's Positions

Postby Rvaughn » Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:27 pm

Sandy wrote:Semantics that the way David Flick characterized their remarks...
That's not doomsday, nut case end of the world stuff like some of the outrageous eschatology of the religious right, that's an observable fact.
Seems like you are both playing the semantic game. Whether "nut case end of the world stuff" or "observable fact" end of the world stuff, it is still end of the world stuff.
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