Virginia Governor Northam

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Re: Virginia Governor Northam

Postby KeithE » Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:40 pm

Sandy wrote:
Haruo wrote:Looks like the same outfit that publicized the dirt on Northam has now publicized some on Fairfax. My link is to a Fox News story about a Washington Post story (haven't seen the actual WAPO piece yet), and I think it's interesting that Fox News calls the source of both of these old dirt pieces "right wing".

Proposed proof text of the day: Luke 18:19. Be interesting to see if the culture as a whole can learn anything about forgiveness, and if liberals can learn not to pass over "repent" in silence.


Yeah I saw that. These people are connected to Breitbart news, which means that the first reaction to anything they say is that it is a lie, or a severely distorted reality. They, along with a whole host of other extremist right wing media outlets practice this as their M.O. They should be categorized with the same credibility as the Ku Klux Klan.


But better than our President.

8459 lies in 745 days after his oath.

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Re: Virginia Governor Northam

Postby Dave Roberts » Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:23 pm

William Thornton wrote:Puhleeze...do any of you think there's a dem in the galaxy that would not have pushed the yearbook pics if they were of a rep?

The messenger isn't northams problem, it's the admitted blacface and the admitted then denied blackface and klan robe.


I don't know anyone defending Northam at this point. What he did in 1984 was stupid and wrong. I'm intrigued by all the answers people have who do not have to live with the consequences. Those of us in Virginia do. Northam, like Trump in some ways, is not a career politician. He was in the military as a medical officer, then was a pediatrician and director of a critical program for one of the specialty children's hospitals in the state. Some of his responses have been just plain stupid. Either he is or is not in the picture. From what I have seen of the EVMS annual, I can see why he did not buy one. No one would have later wanted to remember such stupidity. Yes, there is a deep racist undercurrent in the Commonwealth of Virginia, I pass a Confederate flag on a 100 foot pole along I-95 every time I go to Richmond, and the state has the same embarrassments in its politics as do a number of others. Unfortunately, since most of the major battles of the Civil War were fought on Virginia's soil, we are still wrapped in Civil War tourism. The racist past is ugly in our state, and even the most progressive politicians grew up in that atmosphere. We in the South have often done a poor job of being assimilated back into being citizens of the United States.
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Re: Virginia Governor Northam

Postby William Thornton » Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:16 pm

I agree with Dave on the 'just plain stupid.' Now it's on to the LT gov.
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Re: Virginia Governor Northam

Postby William Thornton » Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 pm

And btw, the dems were in " I believe the accuser" mode last year. He doesn't deny the furtive encounter.
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Re: Virginia Governor Northam

Postby Sandy » Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:53 pm

William Thornton wrote:And btw, the dems were in " I believe the accuser" mode last year. He doesn't deny the furtive encounter.


He's an African American lieutenant governor in a Southern state. Blown up and out of proportion and after Kavanaugh, the GOP has nothing to take it anywhere. They already tried and there's nothing to back up her claim. It went nowhere then and it goes nowhere now. If the Washington Post investigated and found zilch, then there's nothing.

It will be hard for the GOP to make an issue out of this with thirteen women accusing Trump several with corroborating evidence and all the poop they spread out on Kavanaugh, against whom there was also plenty of evidence. I'd love to see what happens if they go ahead and try. They'll lose this one big time, especially since the Democrats are the voices calling for Northam to step down.
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Re: Virginia Governor Northam

Postby William Thornton » Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:28 pm

....which is why there is an "I believe her" mode to begin with. Dems and fems should be consistent. More to come I'd speculate.
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Re: Virginia Governor Northam

Postby Sandy » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:57 am

The Washington Post investigated pretty thoroughly, found zilch. The flaw in conservative and Republican logic here is that they've jumped to the conclusion that Democrats and women should be consistent in considering that any woman who makes an accusation is right and therefore the man is wrong period. That's a clear indication that for them, it is political and is to be used that way and that is a huge mistake. It is also one of the reasons why they are taking a catastrophic beating on credibility. Democrats require facts and evidence to back up an accusation. Republicans are just looking for a smear.

The issue with Fairfax surfaced a year ago and in spite of it, he went on to be elected overwhelmingly. There will probably be some muttering and fuming, lip flapping and finger pointing. This is being pushed by Breitbart (a.k.a. the alt-right racist liars). As an African American who is popular, outspoken on the reticent racism exhibited in Robert E. Lee commemorations and leftover confederate memorabilia, and leans to the left politically. Put all of that together with evidence of an investigation that turned up nothing and you have the makings of a big boost to Fairfax in terms of sympathy for him and backlash against those who keep pushing it.
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Re: Virginia Governor Northam

Postby KeithE » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:35 am

William Thornton wrote:....which is why there is an "I believe her" mode to begin with. Dems and fems should be consistent. More to come I'd speculate.

Your take is “i believe all republicans” and refuse to favor pursuit of the accusations; yet favor resignation of any possible misdeeds by dems even before there is a thorough investigation(s).

Your inconsistent record herein speaks. e.g. your support and look the other way attitudes wrt:
Trump - 22 accusations of sexual harassment (including admission on tape).
Kavanaugh - 10 accusations of sexual misconduct, and
Kemp - voting rights curtailments.

As for Fairfax. Lt. Gov. Justin Fairfax says he had consensual sex with woman who accuses him of assault.
Sounds like a “she-says-much-later, he-responded” standoff until more is investigated.

I’d be for all politicians to be subject to at least the similar scrutiny I got every 5 years when re-establishing a security clearance. Any sexual assault (proven in a court), financial bankruptcies or stress, unreported contacts with foreigners from certain countries (including Russia), hints of sympathy to those countries (think Trump), serial or deliberate mishandling of classified material (think Hillary) ... would result in disapproval of that clearance continuation (possibly adjudicated in a special court). I can think of 7 people who had their clearances removed (and most lost their job, one lost his life). They do not want anyone that is blackmailable having a clearance.
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Postby Stephen Fox » Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:42 pm

Sandy is eloquent, but ill informed if he hasn't read and thought about Jill Lepore chapter Battle lines. The Dem leadership caved way too soon!!! Until facts point otherwise I'm convinced this was a right to life Hit Job and that should be the story. Let's bring in the Opp researchers who ruined this man in a 24 hour news cycle and find some so called "conservative" Christians who know their rectum from a Hole in the Ground to do some truth telling about the right to life movement chocked full of "mendacity"!!!
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Re: Virginia Governor Northam

Postby William Thornton » Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:19 pm

Odd how Trump is the answer for Keith. Doesn't matter what the question is. Find someone who voted for the guy.

Would suit me if Northam stayed in office.
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Re: Virginia Governor Northam

Postby Sandy » Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:52 pm

William Thornton wrote:Would suit me if Northam stayed in office.


I think he should resign. If he doesn't, well, he can't run again anyway so it opens the door for Fairfax. He was the choice of the largest majority of Virginia voters in the state's history. He'll serve out his term, have many more accomplishments that please voters and he'll set Fairfax up for success. If he does, Fairfax can serve out his term and then run again. He will also be an accomplished governor with lots of voter support. Virginia is a southern state, so it still has its share of bigots and racists but the Democrats now have the ability to get things done, so either way it doesn't really matter. I'd like to see Fairfax become the first African American governor of a southern state, but it would be a little nicer if he could win it by an electoral majority of voters instead of by succeeding the position.

The Washington Post October 2018 wrote:Nearly a year after his nine-point electoral victory, Virginia’s Democratic governor remains very popular. A new statewide survey conducted for the University of Mary Washington by SSRS, a national research firm, revealed that 55 percent of Virginians approved of Ralph Northam’s performance as governor, with 24 percent disapproving. That net job approval rating of 31 points is far above the comparable rating of 13 for former governor Terry McAuliffe (D), who garnered 44 percent positive and 31 percent negative assessments in October 2014, a year into his term.

Virginia governors often struggle to pass landmark legislation during their time in office, but Northam’s first year featured the passage of his top-priority Medicaid expansion plan, an agreement that had eluded his predecessor. The new Mary Washington poll shows that the prospect of Medicaid expansion is more popular than ever, with 76 percent of Virginians supporting the policy and 18 percent opposed.
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Re: My post is at New Baptist Covenant.

Postby Sandy » Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:22 pm

Stephen Fox wrote:Sandy is eloquent, but ill informed if he hasn't read and thought about Jill Lepore chapter Battle lines. The Dem leadership caved way too soon!!! Until facts point otherwise I'm convinced this was a right to life Hit Job and that should be the story. Let's bring in the Opp researchers who ruined this man in a 24 hour news cycle and find some so called "conservative" Christians who know their rectum from a Hole in the Ground to do some truth telling about the right to life movement chocked full of "mendacity"!!!


There's a long list of Republicans who have plenty of dangling skeletons in the closet when it comes to racism and hypocrisy on just about any issue they claim as their own, including pro-life. The problem is that a photo like the one on Northam's medical school yearbook page isn't something they see as wrong, they'd wear it as a badge of honor and use it as part of a campaign to muster votes from their base.

I only recently ordered Lepore's These Truths and haven't had a chance to start it. Maybe tomorrow. Looks like Chicago will have an ice storm and we may close school for the day. It would be nice to curl up with a good book at the balcony window.
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Re: Virginia Governor Northam

Postby KeithE » Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:52 pm

William Thornton wrote:Odd how Trump is the answer for Keith. Doesn't matter what the question is. Find someone who voted for the guy.


And incredible that William continues to look the other way. An Interactive Guide to Trump X Scandals. X refers to Trump the Person, the businessman, his Organization/Foundation/Campaign/Inaugural Committee/University/Relatives/Cabinet/Russia Connections/Tax Evasions/Office Hours/ .......

Trump will continue to be a target of mine until he is in prison. Even after his death I will try to tarnish his “legacy" of criminality/demagoguery.

--------------------

I’m having to guess what you meant in your quote above (read it):

Trump is definitely not “the answer for” me.

And I pointed out accusations about more than just Trump (Kavanaugh and Kemp were also mentioned in context - they are all examples of repugs you have defended here on BL against accusations).

It would be easy for anyone to “find someone who voted for” Trump. So what did you really mean? If yo meant my post was directed solely at you, recognize that posting to BL is not only aimed at you (if that was what you were implying with " Find someone who voted for the guy”, since I know you have often said you did not vote for Trump).

Be clearer in your English please. I recognize that this engineer is not a great writer; but pastors ought to be.
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Re: Virginia Governor Northam

Postby Rvaughn » Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:58 pm

Interesting article from the Washington Post from a couple of hours ago:
Democrats grapple with Fairfax assault accusation in #MeToo era
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Re: Virginia Governor Northam

Postby Sandy » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:51 pm

That is an interesting article, since the Post was given the information around the time he was getting elected. I believe that every accusation should be investigated. This one apparently was and nothing came of it. And unlike the high profile Kavanaugh accusations, complete with corroborating evidence, this one doesn't have anything. The Republicans are taking a low profile on it because they can see the potential this one might have for some real backlash.
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Re: Virginia Governor Northam

Postby Rvaughn » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:04 pm

According to the Post, they had two different versions of what happened, with the only witnesses being the two people giving the two different versions. They said they could find no way of corroborating either version. The Post disputed the claim of the Lt. Governor's staff that the Post found “significant red flags and inconsistencies within the allegations” of the Lt. Governor's accuser.
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Re: Virginia Governor Northam

Postby Rvaughn » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:16 pm

National Public Radio has reported that the woman accusing Lt. Governor Fairfax of sexual assault hasretained Katz, Marshall and Banks, law firm that represented Christine Blasey Ford. Could become interesting.
Woman Alleging Sexual Assault By Virginia's Lt. Gov. Hires Washington Law Firm
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Re: Virginia Governor Northam

Postby Haruo » Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:43 pm

Rvaughn wrote:According to the Post, they had two different versions of what happened, with the only witnesses being the two people giving the two different versions. They said they could find no way of corroborating either version. The Post disputed the claim of the Lt. Governor's staff that the Post found “significant red flags and inconsistencies within the allegations” of the Lt. Governor's accuser.

I wonder if now, with the Kavanaugh stuff behind us and a couple of years of #metooism under our belts, the Post might put a bit more effort into investigating a case like this one. Time may tell.
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Re: Virginia Governor Northam

Postby Rvaughn » Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:50 am

This opinion piece, from the Chicago Tribune, appeared in our local paper this morning. Asks an intriguing question, with a perhaps unexpected answer.
If Virginia Gov. Ralph Northam resigns over racist photo, who wins?
A few excerpts:
Let’s be clear. The deafening chorus of Democrats and Republicans calling for Virginia Gov. Ralph Northam to step down over that blackface picture has little to do with African-Americans. It’s about politics.

I will not pretend to speak for every African-American, but for many of us, there is simply no outrage over that blackface photograph on Northam’s yearbook page. Of course, it’s racist and offensive. But many of us who live in blackface every day aren’t shocked to learn that a white politician has racist skeletons in his closet. What many African-Americans care about is what Northam has done for them lately.

...on the larger, more important, issue of racial reconciliation, Northam’s resignation would achieve nothing...Republicans...would get to rejoice that a racist was unveiled in the Democratic Party...Democrats...By declaring zero tolerance for a racist act that occurred three decades ago, they’d get to throw African-Americans a small token of appreciation for years of loyalty...Trump, though, would get the greatest reward of all.
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Re: Virginia Governor Northam

Postby Sandy » Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:07 pm

Northam is term limited, so the pressure for him to resign will be whatever he puts on himself. Virginia voters are quite pleased with his governorship so far and with the progressive turn the state has made as he fulfills campaign promises that helped him get elected by a wide majority. Regardless of the persons at the helm, the Democratic agenda is resonating with Virginia voters and that's going to continue.

I really don't get whatever the "thrill" was with whites putting on blackface and imitating African Americans. I grew up in a part of the country where that just wasn't a thing, and I can see how it can be perceived as demeaning, hurtful and mean-spirited and how someone doing it could be seen as prejudiced, or at the very least, inconsiderate. I never really thought much about the KKK, that was just the stuff you saw in movies until I moved to Texas and saw several group gatherings, marches and demonstrations and I could see how intimidating that could be. And I can see how offensive it would be for someone to dress up that way as a joke.

Noting that this and the allegations about Fairfax were put out by a group connected to Breitbart, which is itself a racist, alt-right propaganda outlet. Against that, Northam and Fairfax are far more credible. The Republicans are on the down side of an electoral beating and headed toward an even larger defeat down the road.
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Re: Virginia Governor Northam

Postby KeithE » Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:13 pm

Rvaughn wrote:This opinion piece, from the Chicago Tribune, appeared in our local paper this morning. Asks an intriguing question, with a perhaps unexpected answer.
If Virginia Gov. Ralph Northam resigns over racist photo, who wins?
A few excerpts:
Let’s be clear. The deafening chorus of Democrats and Republicans calling for Virginia Gov. Ralph Northam to step down over that blackface picture has little to do with African-Americans. It’s about politics.

I will not pretend to speak for every African-American, but for many of us, there is simply no outrage over that blackface photograph on Northam’s yearbook page. Of course, it’s racist and offensive. But many of us who live in blackface every day aren’t shocked to learn that a white politician has racist skeletons in his closet. What many African-Americans care about is what Northam has done for them lately.

...on the larger, more important, issue of racial reconciliation, Northam’s resignation would achieve nothing...Republicans...would get to rejoice that a racist was unveiled in the Democratic Party...Democrats...By declaring zero tolerance for a racist act that occurred three decades ago, they’d get to throw African-Americans a small token of appreciation for years of loyalty...Trump, though, would get the greatest reward of all.


Good article Rvaughn. Another paragraph in your article makes me think:
While each case is different, we must consider whether to hold someone hostage as a racist for life because of a mistake made before they became aware. We must decide if it is in our best interest to have someone who has worked to make amends over the years standing with us against those who refuse to accept change.


Perhaps if Northam can show how he is a changed man, the people of VA (including the Afro-American community) can learn to accept him and he can function as their leader. These two paragraphs (also from Rvaughn’s article) work in the direction to make that case:

It’s also been reported that he currently attends a racially integrated church on Virginia’s Eastern Shore, and that his pastor is African-American.


This is what a conversation on race looks like. Someone does something racially insensitive. He discusses it with someone he has hurt and he comes away understanding why this seemingly innocent act is so painful to others.


This is chance to show grace after demonstrated (?) correction in character over a long period. And it might be healing especially if the Afro-American accepts it. As I said earlier
I believe in forgiveness for the truly contrite. His racial attitude today should be assessed.


On the Fairfax issue and the new VA AG Mark Herring issue, more investigations are in order (as is judgment of their demonstrated current character).

What do ya’ll think?

On the Trump case, their is little evidence that the needed repentance (on many matters) and demonstrated character change have occurred (witness, for just one example, his attack on McCain last night).
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Re: Virginia Governor Northam

Postby Rvaughn » Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:04 pm

Professor who accused Virginia Lt. Gov. Justin Fairfax of 2004 sexual assault issues statement detailing alleged incident. The New York Times has the complete text of her statement HERE. [Warning, there is some graphic description where she gives her version of the incident.]
I met Mr. Fairfax on July 26, 2004, when he and I were working at the [Democratic National] Convention [in Boston]. We struck up a conversation on the first day of the Convention and soon realized we had a mutual friend.

On Friday, February 1, 2019, as stories appeared in the media suggesting that Governor Northam would have to resign and that Mr. Fairfax would be sworn in as Governor, I felt a jarring sense of both outrage and despair. That night I vented my frustration on Facebook in a message that I wrote as a private post. I did not identify Lt. Governor Fairfax by name...

Since October 2017 when I first began telling friends about the assault, I have never wavered in my account because I am telling the truth. I have no political motive. I am a proud Democrat. My only motive in speaking now is to refute Mr. Fairfax’s falsehoods and aspersions of my character, and to provide what I believe is important information for Virginians to have as they make critical decisions that involve Mr. Fairfax.

I do not want to get further embroiled in this highly charged political environment.

This is the only statement I and my legal team will be making.
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Re: Virginia Governor Northam

Postby Sandy » Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:52 am

Rvaughn wrote:Professor who accused Virginia Lt. Gov. Justin Fairfax of 2004 sexual assault issues statement detailing alleged incident. The New York Times has the complete text of her statement HERE. [Warning, there is some graphic description where she gives her version of the incident.]
I met Mr. Fairfax on July 26, 2004, when he and I were working at the [Democratic National] Convention [in Boston]. We struck up a conversation on the first day of the Convention and soon realized we had a mutual friend.

On Friday, February 1, 2019, as stories appeared in the media suggesting that Governor Northam would have to resign and that Mr. Fairfax would be sworn in as Governor, I felt a jarring sense of both outrage and despair. That night I vented my frustration on Facebook in a message that I wrote as a private post. I did not identify Lt. Governor Fairfax by name...

Since October 2017 when I first began telling friends about the assault, I have never wavered in my account because I am telling the truth. I have no political motive. I am a proud Democrat. My only motive in speaking now is to refute Mr. Fairfax’s falsehoods and aspersions of my character, and to provide what I believe is important information for Virginians to have as they make critical decisions that involve Mr. Fairfax.

I do not want to get further embroiled in this highly charged political environment.

This is the only statement I and my legal team will be making.


Now I'm going to be snarky, and ask the same questions Republicans publicly pushed during the Kavanaugh hearings. I wonder who is paying her and how much? Why wait until he is Lieutenant Governor and potentially in line to be governor?

If she did not want to become further involved in a highly charged political environment, then why get involved in a highly charged political environment?

For Republicans, here's your answer. You did not believe Blasey-Ford, and she had corroborating evidence. This one is less credible and doesn't have any corroboration. You need to sit down, be quiet and let the Democrats handle their in-house issues.
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Re: Virginia Governor Northam

Postby Haruo » Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:49 am

Sandy wrote:Now I'm going to be snarky, and ask the same questions Republicans publicly pushed during the Kavanaugh hearings. I wonder who is paying her and how much? Why wait until he is Lieutenant Governor and potentially in line to be governor?

If she did not want to become further involved in a highly charged political environment, then why get involved in a highly charged political environment?

For Republicans, here's your answer. You did not believe Blasey-Ford, and she had corroborating evidence. This one is less credible and doesn't have any corroboration. You need to sit down, be quiet and let the Democrats handle their in-house issues.

Yes, that does come off as snarky. The Democrats shouldn't be left to "handle" this issue alone anymore than the Republicans should have had a free hand to "handle" Blasey-Ford. And assuming for the moment that she is being honest in her recounting of her recollection of the night in question, you have to be extremely insensitive not to be able to imagine why she might feel she needed to come forward at this point. And how do you know there's no corroboration? Wasn't there a time when Blasey-Ford's allegations looked like she-said he-said? And having watched what Blasey-Ford went through as far as death threats etc. can't you easily imagine why she might be torn about coming forward even at this point, and doing what she can to state her case without unduly opening herself and perhaps her family to danger?
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Re: Virginia Governor Northam

Postby Haruo » Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:13 pm

I haven't had a chance to really research either the Northam or the Fairfax stories, but the thing that worries me about Northam much more than the pictures on his yearbook page (regardless of whether he is or is not one of the guys in costume) is why (at least as I have seen it reported) he first admitted it was him and then later denied it was him. I don't know exactly what it was he was trying to admit initially, nor whether or not that is the same thing that he later tried to deny. If it's the same thing (Is this you in this photo here? Yes. Next day: Is this you in this [same] photo here? No.) then I think that says more about his fitness to be governor than anything he may have done in 1984. I don't know if it means he's loony, or that he's dumb enough to think that you can do that sort of retraction, or what. But I'm not at all sure that what he said "Yes" to one day was the exact same question he said "No" to the next day. I don't have enough computer access time to track such things down and still accomplish anything in my life and keep my wife fed, so I'm unlikely to ever know unless a story I happen to see on Google News addresses and answers (clearly) my question. Or if somebody here does.

I can imagine him saying "Yes" meaning "Yes, that's my page, and I had a hand in its composition" but "No, the individuals in costume there are neither of them me." But I don't know, and the world of algorithm-driven sound bites and journalistic biases makes it hard to know if I ever will.
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