A Banana Republic?

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A Banana Republic?

Postby Joseph Patrick » Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:39 pm

From Gerry Milligan...in our 32 years with the FMB/IMB we lived in some countries where the practices of the ruler were emblematic of a banana republic country. Romania was probably the worst offender under Emil Chauchescu. Dissenting with the government did not guarantee a long life. So, how do we explain the current president wanting to prosecute people who did not grovel at his feet? It makes me think of a banana republic.
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Re: A Banana Republic?

Postby Haruo » Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:54 pm

Much agreement.
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Re: A Banana Republic?

Postby William Thornton » Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:43 am

Joseph Patrick wrote:From Gerry Milligan...in our 32 years with the FMB/IMB we lived in some countries where the practices of the ruler were emblematic of a banana republic country. Romania was probably the worst offender under Emil Chauchescu. Dissenting with the government did not guarantee a long life. So, how do we explain the current president wanting to prosecute people who did not grovel at his feet? It makes me think of a banana republic.


Take a pill. Only a sick person compares trump with Ceausescu. Smart guy like you...I'd bet if you tried you could come up,with some pretty marked differences.

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Re: A Banana Republic?

Postby KeithE » Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:28 am

William Thornton wrote:
Joseph Patrick wrote:From Gerry Milligan...in our 32 years with the FMB/IMB we lived in some countries where the practices of the ruler were emblematic of a banana republic country. Romania was probably the worst offender under Emil Chauchescu. Dissenting with the government did not guarantee a long life. So, how do we explain the current president wanting to prosecute people who did not grovel at his feet? It makes me think of a banana republic.


Take a pill. Only a sick person compares trump with Ceausescu. Smart guy like you...I'd bet if you tried you could come up,with some pretty marked differences.

Departure from reality: T + 2 years, thirteen days and counting.

Quit your medical advice and go back to sleep.
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Re: A Banana Republic?

Postby Joseph Patrick » Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:19 am

William Thornton wrote:
Joseph Patrick wrote:From Gerry Milligan...in our 32 years with the FMB/IMB we lived in some countries where the practices of the ruler were emblematic of a banana republic country. Romania was probably the worst offender under Emil Ceausescu. Dissenting with the government did not guarantee a long life. So, how do we explain the current president wanting to prosecute people who did not grovel at his feet? It makes me think of a banana republic.


Take a pill. Only a sick person compares trump with Ceausescu. Smart guy like you...I'd bet if you tried you could come up,with some pretty marked differences.

Departure from reality: T + 2 years, thirteen days and counting.


From Gerry Milligan...Only a trump sycophant would defend his behavior. Oh, by the way, the comparison was in how a leader uses his office to punish those who do not fawn over him. And yes there are some marked differences between the two, but I was not comparing them. There is evidence that Ceausescu was a racist, just ask any Romanian Gypsy. But there is no evidence that Ceausescu was a misogynist, nor was he a serial adulterer, nor is there evidence that Ceausescu caused the death of only one person. So, yes, there are differences, but also similarities. But, as I was not comparing the two despots, your comment is moot.
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Re: A Banana Republic?

Postby Haruo » Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:04 am

Who is the one person there is evidence Trump caused the death of? Gerry or anyone?
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Re: A Banana Republic?

Postby Joseph Patrick » Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:23 pm

Haruo wrote:Who is the one person there is evidence Trump caused the death of? Gerry or anyone?


From Gerry Milligan...donald trump owned several buildings in NYC. The city asked that all buildings be retrofitted with sprinkler systems. Mr. trump refused and there was a fire in one and one person died.
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Re: A Banana Republic?

Postby William Thornton » Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:28 pm

Joseph Patrick wrote:
William Thornton wrote:
Joseph Patrick wrote:From Gerry Milligan...in our 32 years with the FMB/IMB we lived in some countries where the practices of the ruler were emblematic of a banana republic country. Romania was probably the worst offender under Emil Ceausescu. Dissenting with the government did not guarantee a long life. So, how do we explain the current president wanting to prosecute people who did not grovel at his feet? It makes me think of a banana republic.


Take a pill. Only a sick person compares trump with Ceausescu. Smart guy like you...I'd bet if you tried you could come up,with some pretty marked differences.

Departure from reality: T + 2 years, thirteen days and counting.


From Gerry Milligan...Only a trump sycophant would defend his behavior. Oh, by the way, the comparison was in how a leader uses his office to punish those who do not fawn over him. And yes there are some marked differences between the two, but I was not comparing them. There is evidence that Ceausescu was a racist, just ask any Romanian Gypsy. But there is no evidence that Ceausescu was a misogynist, nor was he a serial adulterer, nor is there evidence that Ceausescu caused the death of only one person. So, yes, there are differences, but also similarities. But, as I was not comparing the two despots, your comment is moot.


You compared them, Gerry. Read your own stuff occasionally.
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Re: A Banana Republic?

Postby William Thornton » Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:33 pm

Joseph Patrick wrote:
Haruo wrote:Who is the one person there is evidence Trump caused the death of? Gerry or anyone?


From Gerry Milligan...donald trump owned several buildings in NYC. The city asked that all buildings be retrofitted with sprinkler systems. Mr. trump refused and there was a fire in one and one person died.


Idiotic use of the word "caused." You are unhinged. Perhaps more than a pill is needed.
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Re: A Banana Republic?

Postby Rvaughn » Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:47 pm

Joseph Patrick wrote:...Oh, by the way, the comparison was in how a leader uses his office to punish those who do not fawn over him...But, as I was not comparing the two despots, your comment is moot.
Gerry, this is one of the more curiouser statements I've read on here in a while.
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Re: A Banana Republic?

Postby Joseph Patrick » Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:14 pm

William Thornton wrote:
Joseph Patrick wrote:
Haruo wrote:Who is the one person there is evidence Trump caused the death of? Gerry or anyone?


From Gerry Milligan...donald trump owned several buildings in NYC. The city asked that all buildings be retrofitted with sprinkler systems. Mr. trump refused and there was a fire in one and one person died.


Idiotic use of the word "caused." You are unhinged. Perhaps more than a pill is needed.


It seems that with your Min Div you also were able to diagnose and prescribe. If that be the case, "Physician, Heal thyself."
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Re: A Banana Republic?

Postby Joseph Patrick » Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:15 pm

Rvaughn wrote:
Joseph Patrick wrote:...Oh, by the way, the comparison was in how a leader uses his office to punish those who do not fawn over him...But, as I was not comparing the two despots, your comment is moot.
Gerry, this is one of the more curiouser statements I've read on here in a while.


How so?
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Re: A Banana Republic?

Postby Haruo » Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:22 pm

Joseph Patrick wrote:
Haruo wrote:Who is the one person there is evidence Trump caused the death of? Gerry or anyone?


From Gerry Milligan...donald trump owned several buildings in NYC. The city asked that all buildings be retrofitted with sprinkler systems. Mr. trump refused and there was a fire in one and one person died.

Oh, yeah, I'd completely forgotten that one. Contributory responsibility (unless he set the fire), but not causation. Still, I think renters who vote for him should probably get mandatory something or other. Just like I can't see why someone worried about employment would vote for a guy whose most famous saying was "You're fired!"
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Re: A Banana Republic?

Postby Rvaughn » Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:17 pm

Joseph Patrick wrote:How so?
In that you compare Chauchescu and Trump and then say you are not comparing Chauchescu and Trump.
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Re: A Banana Republic?

Postby Joseph Patrick » Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:04 am

Rvaughn wrote:
Joseph Patrick wrote:How so?
In that you compare Chauchescu and Trump and then say you are not comparing Chauchescu and Trump.


What I was commenting on was how certain leaders try to punish political opposition. Most often seen in Banana republics, but not limited to them. I used Chauchescu because everyone is familiar with him. Probably I should have used Jabber al-Sabah as he did the same things that donald trump is trying to do, prosecute any real or imagined opposition. Sorry that I was too esoteric for you.
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Re: A Banana Republic?

Postby William Thornton » Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:20 am

Esoterica isn't the problem. I suspect that you are capable of an intelligent discussion about American politics.Unfortunately, you demonstrated in a couple of different ways that you weren't interested in such for this topic.
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Re: A Banana Republic?

Postby KeithE » Thu Nov 22, 2018 9:31 am

Trump is certainly responsible for some of the 281 migrates deaths at the US/Mexico Border in 2017 alone (scroll down and add) and some of the 401 migrates deaths along the border (click map numbers and add) so far in 2018.

Bush, Obama, Trump and especially the Saudis are responsible for the estimated 85,000 children 'dead from malnutrition' in Yemen.

Many of the 2975 deaths in Puerto Rico are due to a lackluster (or worse) response from the Trump administration.

Need I go on. It is very difficult to isolate “causation” on any person/group for any needless death; but Trump is certainly callous to many in mortal need. I will say that I do not know of any political assassinations (physical ones at least) ordered by Trump.

------------------

To the point of being a “banana republic” just look at Trump’s wishes to have control over our institutions - Courts, Justice Department, Media, Congress. He has been quite open about his frustrated wishes for strongmen powers like that of Putin, Xi Jinping, Duterte, Kim Jong Un, Abdel-Fattah el-Sissi, Erdogan and the Saudi princes.

I’m thankful that (for the most part) Trump does these power grabs sufficiently openly for the media to notice; but am highly puzzled that many Trump supporters remain supporters. Double puzzled about Christians supporting him.

William (effectively a Trump supporter) keeps telling us to "take pills” and ignore all of Trump's antics. I’ll recommend enough caffeine to keep reading the tea leaves and do what you can to suppress the many degradations (to our country and the world) coming from Trumpism.
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Re: A Banana Republic?

Postby Joseph Patrick » Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:34 pm

KeithE wrote:Trump is certainly responsible for some of the 281 migrates deaths at the US/Mexico Border in 2017 alone (scroll down and add) and some of the 401 migrates deaths along the border (click map numbers and add) so far in 2018.

Bush, Obama, Trump and especially the Saudis are responsible for the estimated 85,000 children 'dead from malnutrition' in Yemen.

Many of the 2975 deaths in Puerto Rico are due to a lackluster (or worse) response from the Trump administration.

Need I go on. It is very difficult to isolate “causation” on any person/group for any needless death; but Trump is certainly callous to many in mortal need. I will say that I do not know of any political assassinations (physical ones at least) ordered by Trump.

------------------

To the point of being a “banana republic” just look at Trump’s wishes to have control over our institutions - Courts, Justice Department, Media, Congress. He has been quite open about his frustrated wishes for strongmen powers like that of Putin, Xi Jinping, Duterte, Kim Jong Un, Abdel-Fattah el-Sissi, Erdogan and the Saudi princes.

I’m thankful that (for the most part) Trump does these power grabs sufficiently openly for the media to notice; but am highly puzzled that many Trump supporters remain supporters. Double puzzled about Christians supporting him.

William (effectively a Trump supporter) keeps telling us to "take pills” and ignore all of Trump's antics. I’ll recommend enough caffeine to keep reading the tea leaves and do what you can to suppress the many degradations (to our country and the world) coming from Trumpism.


From Gerry milligan...Well said and timely.
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Re: A Banana Republic?

Postby Rvaughn » Fri Nov 23, 2018 4:39 pm

Joseph Patrick wrote:Sorry that I was too esoteric for you.

William Thornton wrote:Esoterica isn't the problem.
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Re: A Banana Republic?

Postby Joseph Patrick » Fri Nov 23, 2018 10:34 pm

William Thornton wrote:Esoterica isn't the problem. I suspect that you are capable of an intelligent discussion about American politics.Unfortunately, you demonstrated in a couple of different ways that you weren't interested in such for this topic.


From Gerry Milligan...you are partially correct, esoterica is not the problem...the problem is how some ignore the subject and the point of this string; choosing instead to obfuscate and try to hijack it and ignore that the focus is on how trump, similar to banana republic despots, tried to prosecute people who disagree with him. The difference, in the USA, is that our despot does not have control of the free press as many despots did.
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Re: A Banana Republic?

Postby Joseph Patrick » Fri Nov 23, 2018 10:37 pm

Rvaughn wrote:
Joseph Patrick wrote:Sorry that I was too esoteric for you.

William Thornton wrote:Esoterica isn't the problem.


From Gerry Milligan...you are partially correct, esoterica is not the problem...the problem is how some ignore the subject and the point of this string; choosing instead to obfuscate and try to hijack it and ignore that the focus is on how trump, similar to banana republic despots, tried to prosecute people who disagree with him. The difference, in the USA, is that our despot does not have control of the free press as many despots did.
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Re: A Banana Republic?

Postby Sandy » Sat Nov 24, 2018 12:03 am

Joseph Patrick wrote: From Gerry Milligan...you are partially correct, esoterica is not the problem...the problem is how some ignore the subject and the point of this string; choosing instead to obfuscate and try to hijack it and ignore that the focus is on how trump, similar to banana republic despots, tried to prosecute people who disagree with him. The difference, in the USA, is that our despot does not have control of the free press as many despots did.
Joseph Patrick



The fact that Trump doesn't compare exactly, word for work, act for act, to a dictator like Ceaucescu (I think that's the spelling) doesn't mean he doesn't have despotic, dictatorial tendencies. His blatant ignorance of the way government works and how it is held accountable by the Constitution shows up in his attempts to undermine the free press which holds him accountable. Trump and those who claim the "liberal media" is responsible for a left wing bias and "fake news" have yet to come up with a single shred of proof that this is so, nor have any of the conservatives on this board ever been able to do more than jump to the next subject when they are challenged to put up evidence to point to the mainstream media's errors or bias. He clearly does not understand the concept of an independent judiciary, does not understand separation of powers, is frustrated even by a GOP congress that has different opinions than he does. He's trying to get past all of the checks and balances on presidential power like he has gotten past all of the laws regarding his business interests and how he can "make money" off of his presidency, though that time will end when the new Congress comes to power.

He's be a dictator if he could get away with it. Fortunately, there are still checks and balances that even the party in power can't bypass. But I think his dictatorial tendencies are just who he is. He has always been a con man and a fraud, a manipulating schemer, and remains so as president. Personally, I think he is insane, his behavior and his tweets would be primary indicators of this. I'm not using that as an expression, I believe the man is seriously mentally ill. I'd bet a good psychiatrist would come up with at least three good solid diagnoses from the DSM manual.
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Re: A Banana Republic?

Postby KeithE » Sat Nov 24, 2018 9:18 am

Sandy wrote:
Joseph Patrick wrote: From Gerry Milligan...you are partially correct, esoterica is not the problem...the problem is how some ignore the subject and the point of this string; choosing instead to obfuscate and try to hijack it and ignore that the focus is on how trump, similar to banana republic despots, tried to prosecute people who disagree with him. The difference, in the USA, is that our despot does not have control of the free press as many despots did.
Joseph Patrick



The fact that Trump doesn't compare exactly, word for work, act for act, to a dictator like Ceaucescu (I think that's the spelling) doesn't mean he doesn't have despotic, dictatorial tendencies. His blatant ignorance of the way government works and how it is held accountable by the Constitution shows up in his attempts to undermine the free press which holds him accountable. Trump and those who claim the "liberal media" is responsible for a left wing bias and "fake news" have yet to come up with a single shred of proof that this is so, nor have any of the conservatives on this board ever been able to do more than jump to the next subject when they are challenged to put up evidence to point to the mainstream media's errors or bias. He clearly does not understand the concept of an independent judiciary, does not understand separation of powers, is frustrated even by a GOP congress that has different opinions than he does. He's trying to get past all of the checks and balances on presidential power like he has gotten past all of the laws regarding his business interests and how he can "make money" off of his presidency, though that time will end when the new Congress comes to power.

He's be a dictator if he could get away with it. Fortunately, there are still checks and balances that even the party in power can't bypass. But I think his dictatorial tendencies are just who he is. He has always been a con man and a fraud, a manipulating schemer, and remains so as president. Personally, I think he is insane, his behavior and his tweets would be primary indicators of this. I'm not using that as an expression, I believe the man is seriously mentally ill. I'd bet a good psychiatrist would come up with at least three good solid diagnoses from the DSM manual.


Good points, all.

The point in red (above, my red) is not only wrt to arguments about media bias but to most points that challenge pre-conceived ideas. But it is not universally applicable - fortunately (e.g. as wrong as Flick is wrt GW/CC and given to much snooty name calling, he at least attempted to provide evidence that GW/CC is a “hoax").

This board should be a "give and take" discussion board (preferably with evidence and DATA), but seems too often to be snooty deflection when cornered by the facts. Seldom do I hear any “give” - “those are good points but ...” .
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Re: A Banana Republic?

Postby William Thornton » Sat Nov 24, 2018 4:22 pm

This board has two cons, JLE and me, and Ed when he weighs in on politics. David too, but he doesn't comment on politics.

I don't feel compelled to address the chicken little, hair-on-fire, breathless discoveries of the ihatetrump section, unless it involves nonsense like Ceausescu. Didn't vote for trump.

But you guys have at it. I suppose it's therapeutic for you.
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Re: A Banana Republic?

Postby Joseph Patrick » Sat Nov 24, 2018 5:53 pm

William Thornton wrote:This board has two cons, JLE and me, and Ed when he weighs in on politics. David too, but he doesn't comment on politics.

I don't feel compelled to address the chicken little, hair-on-fire, breathless discoveries of the ihatetrump section, unless it involves nonsense like Ceausescu. Didn't vote for trump.

But you guys have at it. I suppose it's therapeutic for you.


From Gerry Milligan...How hard is it for an educated person to miss the point of this posting? Probably an educated person (even one with an M Div) gets the point but prefers to focus on an incidental that compliments the main point instead of the main point so that he might try to change the focus of the post in order to get his snarky comments in. Nice try.
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