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Swearing off the Endless Political Argument

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:42 am
by Tim Bonney
I'm posting this here so that you all can hold me to this.

I realize that all the political argument here isn't productive for me. I can pretty much guess, knowing most of you for a lot of years, how you will respond to anything I post and you can probably guess my response.

While I like hanging out here for the long acquaintances we have. I'm no longer going to post about politics or respond to posts about politics. Frankly it just adds to my stress and, as far as I can tell, none of us have ever moved off of our long standing positions.

Nuff said,

Re: Swearing off the Endless Political Argument

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:45 pm
by KeithE
I have felt that way myself. Especially when I go through a lot of reading, studying, DATA gathering and long posting to make my points and all I get back is thoughtless political one-liners (or worse sarcasm).

No folks, I do not just look at any party’s take on matters and go with that.

I have other more courteous blog spots (like Amazon book reviews, Drudge, Talking Points Memo, Seth Abrahamson twitter, Red State, IGM Forum, etc. ). But I might as well copy my points to Baptist Life as well, so I do. Last few years, I have noticed that the more salient my points are, the more silence I hear at BaptistLife.

Re: Swearing off the Endless Political Argument

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:38 pm
by Tim Bonney
I totally get that Keith!

Re: Swearing off the Endless Political Argument

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:19 pm
by Sandy
KeithE wrote: Last few years, I have noticed that the more salient my points are, the more silence I hear at BaptistLife.


Your points are factual and well researched. It's hard to argue with facts, and I'm most often not inclined to do so. I rarely encounter a point you make with which I disagree. But you don't condemn a different perspective, so the discussion is usually short and to the point.

One of the most difficult things to do, especially when it comes to personal religious beliefs, is wrestle with uncertainty, and realize that no matter what you believe, or the foundation that belief rests on, there is no absolute certainty. And I think a lot of the silence is just fear of uncertainty.

Poltical debate was once fun before thinking differently made you an enemy rather than just an adversary. But then, elements of what I call the extremist right wing media started putting forth the philosophy that anyone who didn't believe like they did was inferior and not entitled to the same rights as "right thinking people" were. Terms like "feminazis" and "libtards" characterized the discussions, and is the reason behind the divisiveness and incivility such discussions now have.

Re: Swearing off the Endless Political Argument

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:35 pm
by Tim Bonney
Sandy wrote:
Poltical debate was once fun before thinking differently made you an enemy rather than just an adversary.


That is a big part of why I'm bowing out of such debates here. I like you guys. (it seems to be all guys right now.) But I really do disagree with many of you on issues that none of us are changing our views on. Other than sharpen debating skills. (which may not be growing sharper anyway) it just feels like we dance the same dance with any topic.

I wish we had more discussions on BL.com on being church. It feels a lot more like the "BaptistPolitics.com" forum any more than the BaptistLife.com forum.

Re: Swearing off the Endless Political Argument

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:26 am
by Jon Estes
Tim Bonney wrote:I wish we had more discussions on BL.com on being church.


I’m all in. Share our stories... our blessings... our heartbreaks...

Share what works and what doesn’t.

Let’s do it.

Re: Swearing off the Endless Political Argument

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:49 am
by William Thornton
We've all been friends for a long time. I've met all of you except Haruo and Jon and count you all as friends. So, I think some of your political positions are bat guano crazy...no big deal. We win some. We lose some. The republic moves on.

I'm not all that invested in political discussion and haven't been since 2012 when The Anointed One was elected to a second term. I think my statement was (and BNG picked up that article) something like I'm not going to spend the rest of my life is a perpetual snit over politics. I recommend it. If it occasionally(or frequently) comes out as sarcasm that's just part of my way of managing it. It's never vicious sarcasm or ad hominem. I've probably written more pieces (articles, OPs, not comments) for online consumption than any, perhaps all, of you. Big deal. If some generate a lot of comments, I appreciate the chance for interaction. If some of my scintillating, witty, insightful pieces die a silent death...well, I'll cope. Much of the stuff I do elsewhere is infused with data, mostly financial stuff on the SBC. Sometimes, like Keith, I feel let down to have done some analysis that no one else bothers to do and it goes nowhere.

I'm not all that impressed with some data here. If I do a mouseover and there are a bunch of links from Common Dreams, well...nah...no thanks. I know where those will go. GW doesn't much interest me.

You all know that this place successfully drove off all conservatives except me and jle. We had eight years of ihatebush, then eight years of obamacandonowrong and blameitallonbush, now two years of ireallyhatetrump and more to come. Let me count the ways....

All in all...I'm glad to know and have had a long relationship with the dozen or so regulars.

Well, Bill and Hil are on a comeback tour. I can't afford their ticket prices but, as a greedy capitalist pig, I think they should charge what their adoring market will bear and laugh all the way to the bank.

Re: Swearing off the Endless Political Argument

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:57 am
by Tim Bonney
William Thornton wrote:You all know that this place successfully drove off all conservatives except me and jle. We had eight years of ihatebush, then eight years of obamacandonowrong and blameitallonbush, now two years of ireallyhatetrump and more to come. Let me count the ways....


To be fair a think a number of moderates/liberals have left over the years too. And, at least from my side of the aisle a lot of you are pretty conservative. Many of you who call yourselves moderates might easily be called conservatives in the UMC or other non-evangelical denominations.

Re: Swearing off the Endless Political Argument

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:13 am
by Sandy
William Thornton wrote:You all know that this place successfully drove off all conservatives except me and jle. We had eight years of ihatebush, then eight years of obamacandonowrong and blameitallonbush, now two years of ireallyhatetrump and more to come. Let me count the ways....


This is a message board where there are discussions of politics and religion, and much of the religion is of the Baptist variety. Expecting a different outcome, perhaps?

Re: Swearing off the Endless Political Argument

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:15 am
by KeithE
William Thornton wrote: Sometimes, like Keith, I feel let down to have done some analysis that no one else bothers to do and it goes nowhere.


What analysis on political policy matters have you ever done? Just asking. You have done some good data/observational analysis of SBC stuff.

William Thornton wrote: I'm not all that impressed with some data here. If I do a mouseover and there are a bunch of links from Common Dreams, well...nah...no thanks. I know where those will go. GW doesn't much interest me.

You ought to avail yourself of alternate views that may irritate you. Common Dreams has many good articles. I only bring up about 1 week if that many. You can! overcome your initial “no thanks” bias.

As for GW, I can understand you’re reluctance to enter into the technical world of DATA and science. But you ought to listen to scientists (who actually do study the data) and watch your southern flank this weekend. .

William Thornton wrote:You all know that this place successfully drove off all conservatives except me and jle. We had eight years of ihatebush, then eight years of obamacandonowrong and blameitallonbush, now two years of ireallyhatetrump and more to come. Let me count the ways....


Why not "count the ways” and share them herein; it might make you think in non-binary ways. All that is apparent from you is quick thoughtless support of any Republican and demonization of any Democrat and no thought towards any 3rd Party.

Don’t count me as a always “hat(ing)” or “candonowrong” anyone. It may surprise you that I had many beefs with Obama (e.g. his non action in reducing inequality and his covert militarism). And I’ve have several agreements with Trump (e.g. his treatment of North Korea, limited retaliation for Syrian chemical barrage, his desire to get out Afghanistan, and maybe about 30% of his deregulations efforts - yes there is too much needless red tape).

Re: Swearing off the Endless Political Argument

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:31 am
by William Thornton
I do listen to scientists on GW. At least one of the anyway.

Re: Swearing off the Endless Political Argument

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:29 pm
by Tim Bonney
Are we going to argue about arguing about politics? <eye roll> LOL

Re: Swearing off the Endless Political Argument

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:40 pm
by Tim Bonney
I also say less and less about the SBC. After all, shockingly, I have not been a Southern Baptist for 27 years. So literally I left SBC work half my life ago.

I've not worshipped in Baptist congregation in nearly 9 years. Frankly, there is plenty of disturbing political stuff going in the UMC to keep me busy enough. BTW, in the UMC I'm seen as a moderate.

Re: Swearing off the Endless Political Argument

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:43 pm
by Tim Bonney
Jon Estes wrote:
I’m all in. Share our stories... our blessings... our heartbreaks...

Share what works and what doesn’t.

Let’s do it.


Love the idea Jon!

Re: Swearing off the Endless Political Argument

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:52 pm
by Haruo
Isn't this whole notion a bit inhospitable to Jim?

Re: Swearing off the Endless Political Argument

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:11 pm
by Tim Bonney
Haruo wrote:Isn't this whole notion a bit inhospitable to Jim?


I didn't see Jim post. Where you talking to me?

Re: Swearing off the Endless Political Argument

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:53 pm
by Haruo
I was being a little crass, I guess. Thinking that maybe his social and/or intellectual life might center on making off-the-wall misinterpretations of all of our political posts. To put it kindly. Anyhow, no, Tim, it wasn't aimed at you and wasn't even particularly aimed at all. I was firing blindly.

Re: Swearing off the Endless Political Argument

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:33 pm
by Jon Estes
Tim Bonney wrote:
Jon Estes wrote:
I’m all in. Share our stories... our blessings... our heartbreaks...

Share what works and what doesn’t.

Let’s do it.


Love the idea Jon!


I hope most, if not all, can see the benefit in this. Even non-pastors involved in church life can share from their lives invested in the church ministry. We might even find ourselves willing to see each other through lenses that can connect us instead if keep us at odds over stuff that doesn’t matter eternally.

I’m gonna try and post something at least once a week on what’s happening here in Dubai in the work of EBCI. Pictures to share when available..

Re: Swearing off the Endless Political Argument

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:06 pm
by Rvaughn
Tim Bonney wrote:...it just feels like we dance the same dance with any topic...
I agree.

Re: Swearing off the Endless Political Argument

PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:11 am
by Tim Bonney
Haruo wrote:I was being a little crass, I guess. Thinking that maybe his social and/or intellectual life might center on making off-the-wall misinterpretations of all of our political posts. To put it kindly. Anyhow, no, Tim, it wasn't aimed at you and wasn't even particularly aimed at all. I was firing blindly.


No problem. I thought it might have been a slip of the finger.

Re: Swearing off the Endless Political Argument

PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:32 pm
by Neil Heath
I may be the quietest one on here, but I don't have much to contribute that hasn't already been said better by someone else. If there was a like button I would use it often. I do read every post, with a few exceptions, and I learn a great deal worth pondering. So thanks for the discussions and the insights, and the occasional bit of humor as well.

Neil