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Re: Black female governor for GA?

PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:41 pm
by Haruo
Well, he hasn't completely squashed the Obama recovery. And he hasn't actually started a war. I mean, that's important stuff.

Re: Black female governor for GA?

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:39 am
by William Thornton
Abrams lost but will, I expect, follow a strategy of maximum contentiousness by demanding a recount then suing. She's 63k votes under Kemp and he is 13k above the threshold for a runoff. No one expects provisional and absentee ballots to provide the numbers to change anything.

She almost won against a spectacularly mediocre republican nominee.

Re: Black female governor for GA?

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:42 pm
by Neil Heath
Abrams placed such a high value on making sure that everyone's vote was counted that she can't just concede with uncounted votes out there without sending the wrong message to the people she urged to vote. I suspect she will do the right thing when she knows all have been heard.

Re: Black female governor for GA?

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:00 pm
by Sandy
William Thornton wrote:Abrams lost but will, I expect, follow a strategy of maximum contentiousness by demanding a recount then suing. She's 63k votes under Kemp and he is 13k above the threshold for a runoff. No one expects provisional and absentee ballots to provide the numbers to change anything.

She almost won against a spectacularly mediocre republican nominee.


Kemp set this up for himself by systematically disqualifying voters arbitrarily, knowing that many would not check prior to the deadlines. At the moment, she's 63k behind, with about 220,000 ballots, most of them provisional ballots from Metro Atlanta where she won. I would expect a lawsuit, rightly so. Let the courts decide if he broke the law. Mediocre candidate? Yes, but this is Georgia, which in spite of migration from the north that is dragging the state out of its antebellum attitudes, is still a backward Southern state politically in many ways and is still a place where a mediocre white guy is going to beat a sharp, smart African American woman because she is black and a woman and for no other reason but that. One day there might be enough Yankees in Georgia to make a change but not quite yet. They're just about 64,000 votes shy of it from my perspective, but I'd take bets on them getting there in 2020, especially after two more years of Trump stupidity, if he lasts that long.

Re: Black female governor for GA?

PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:11 am
by Joseph Patrick
Joseph Patrick wrote:
William Thornton wrote:Not a snowball's chance in Gehenna. But let's dream:

http://time.com/5349541/stacey-abrams-georgia/

GOP candidate Kemp will have to crash and burn to lose.


From Gerry Milligan ...aka Joseph Patrick

William, Being a pragmatist and being fairly well informed with the demographics of Georgia (sometimes spelled "racism), I agree with your take on this, no matter how red-necked candidate Kemp appears in his political ads.


From Gerry Milligan...I guess we will never discover if it was racism, cheating by Kemp or as William says ineptness by Abrams that caused the republicans to steal the governors race in Georgia. Again, I ask, do Georgians cringe or applaud when they see Kemp?

Re: Black female governor for GA?

PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:07 am
by William Thornton
Nonsense, conjecture, and blind partisan idiocy are staples here. We've come to expect it.

Abrams, a liberal democrat, almost won in a state dominated by republicans since almost all the white democrats switched parties years ago. While the demographics have changed, they haven't changed enough to make electing a democrat to a statewide office easy or expected. Even against a very mediocre GOP candidate, a respected dem candidate lost.

She lost because she didn't have the votes. The margin wasn't a few hundred or even a few thousand but tens of thousands. I have no idea if her stature is enhanced in the state or diminished. Her standing with the liberal media, Hollywood, and elitist coastal donors is probably enhanced. Since she ran partly on her record of working with republicans, her final fusillade probably lowered her chances among Georgia voters but the populace is slowly changing.

Her angry and combative non-concession speech was, I suppose, a deliberate strategic move. I'd just call it classless.

Re: Black female governor for GA?

PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 8:00 am
by KeithE
William Thornton wrote:Nonsense, conjecture, and blind partisan idiocy are staples here. We've come to expect it.

Abrams, a liberal democrat, almost won in a state dominated by republicans since almost all the white democrats switched parties years ago. While the demographics have changed, they haven't changed enough to make electing a democrat to a statewide office easy or expected. Even against a very mediocre GOP candidate, a respected dem candidate lost.

She lost because she didn't have the votes. The margin wasn't a few hundred or even a few thousand but tens of thousands. I have no idea if her stature is enhanced in the state or diminished. Her standing with the liberal media, Hollywood, and elitist coastal donors is probably enhanced. Since she ran partly on her record of working with republicans, her final fusillade probably lowered her chances among Georgia voters but the populace is slowly changing.

Her angry and combative non-concession speech was, I suppose, a deliberate strategic move. I'd just call it classless.


We’ve come to expect such blind partisanship from Winder as well. This non-Hollywood, non-coastal, mod/lib (as William often says) appreciates Abram's inspired efforts and still has questions about voter repression in GA. Kent's commercial (coupled with enough Georgian Trumpism/Redneckness/Rep-Partisanship/Xenophobia to accept such) says it all. Georgia lost a chance to enter the 21 Century where being a white man is not a requirement for public service (not that Alabama is any better, certainly worse on the corruption front).

Good try Stacy! Keep at it.

Re: Black female governor for GA?

PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 9:18 am
by William Thornton
Not your best effort. Kemp was a very weak candidate. That's why it was close.

Re: Black female governor for GA?

PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:01 am
by Dave Roberts
Could Kemp have won without holding up 73,000 registrations, an action that should qualify him for a term in the "big house?"

Re: Black female governor for GA?

PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:49 pm
by Sandy
William Thornton wrote:Not your best effort. Kemp was a very weak candidate. That's why it was close.


She got a turnout of voters larger than that which the Obama and Clinton campaigns turned out in Georgia and more votes than most Republican statewide candidates have received, with few exceptions. Kemp may have been a weak candidate, but she also got the benefit of turnout motivated by Anti-trump sentiment and they used the Obama campaign strategy of digging out votes by face to face contact. They got 1.9 million voters out, flipped a congressional district and more state legislative seats than in a couple of decades.

And I am not convinced that the vote total is an accurate representation of the actual vote. He was the Secretary of State, and during his term he quietly pulled off the kind of voter suppression of mostly African American voters that county clerks and southern secretaries of state were known for prior to the Civil Rights Movement. As one commentator I heard today put it, "if all of the voting rights act were still in place, she'd have won this election." I sincerely believe it was rigged. He knew how to do it and disqualified, for no legal reason, enough voters who would have supported her to secure his win. I think her posture, including pushing for the lawsuit, is exactly the way for her to handle this. Allowing someone who is running for office to be in charge of the voter registration and the ballots is unethical. It's the proverbial fox guarding the hen house analogy. This is not going away.

Re: Black female governor for GA?

PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:30 pm
by KeithE
William Thornton wrote:Not your best effort. Kemp was a very weak candidate. That's why it was close.


Hardly any effort on your part. Just three short sentences (2 of which were previously stated opinion), sans any documentation.

As for Georgian voter suppression, read Brian Kemp’s Win In Georgia Is Tainted by Voter Suppression

Re: Black female governor for GA?

PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:56 pm
by William Thornton
KeithE wrote:
William Thornton wrote:Not your best effort. Kemp was a very weak candidate. That's why it was close.


Hardly any effort on your part. Just three short sentences (2 of which were previously stated opinion), sans any documentation.

As for Georgian voter suppression, read Brian Kemp’s Win In Georgia Is Tainted by Voter Suppression


Yeah, mother jones. Impressive.

I live here...see all the stuff. She lost by tens of thousands, legitimately.

Re: Black female governor for GA?

PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:17 pm
by Sandy
William Thornton wrote: Yeah, mother jones. Impressive. I live here...see all the stuff. She lost by tens of thousands, legitimately.


Mother Jones is a source, usually pretty reliable and not particularly inclined to invent facts like conservative, right wing sources do. But they're not the only ones who are reporting on this. Unless you were privy to specific ballot counting or voter registration processes, being there wouldn't give you insight to much more than the local media sources which seem to be the ones that national media are citing and referencing.

The fact that a state official in charge of the voter registration and counting process was allowed to be involved when his own name was on the ballot is unethical, and an open door to criticism in the wake of a close election. The fact that, prior to the election, it has been verified that his office was nullifying legitimate, compliant voter registrations is a big enough problem, but the confirmed fact that it seems those which were being nullified were ones who were identified with the other party, and mainly by race, is a red flag. This won't be going away soon.

Not too far away, in Mississippi, you've got this going on.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... 548874f112

Seriously? Gives credence to all of the voter suppression reporting.