Russia a friend, EU a foe?

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Russia a friend, EU a foe?

Postby Tim Bonney » Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:30 pm

I’ll say what several of us have been thinking? Something is deeply wrong with the President disrespecting all of Europe but sucking up to Putin. What happened to the day when the GOP made it its aim to root out communism? Now the President feels that the the KGB is more trustworthy than the CIA?

How fragile is our democracy?
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Re: Russia a friend, EU a foe?

Postby Haruo » Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:53 pm

Tim Bonney wrote:I’ll say what several of us have been thinking? Something is deeply wrong with the President disrespecting all of Europe but sucking up to Putin. What happened to the day when the GOP made it its aim to root out communism? Now the President feels that the the KGB is more trustworthy than the CIA?

How fragile is our democracy?

I think today quite a few of the GOP wised up.

The President views everyone as competitors, and has no real concept of intentional cooperation. I don't think he views the EU as our enemy, but as competitors who have been using our desire to cooperate to get the best of us in a lot of areas. And there is probably some truth to that. And Putin is not a communist, probably wasn't one in any ideological sense even when he actually was in the actual KGB.

I also don't think he realizes the extent to which the USSR and Russia are really the same country, whatever you call it. In which case maybe his statement about Russian-US relations being the worst in history until, this morning, he fixed it, isn't as absurd as it would be if he considered (as I do) the Korean and Vietnam Wars and the Cuban Missile Crisis to be periods in US-Russia relations.

But the straws that hopefully broke a lot of elephants' backs were (a) his direct statement that he found Putin's "strong and powerful ... denial" more convincing than all the testimony of the US intelligence agencies and the Justice Department (including Mueller) PLUS only minutes later Putin's direct statement in response to a reporter's question that "Yes I did" (as I interpret the recording) both want Trump to win in 2016 AND direct my people to work to that end. Recording
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Re: Russia a friend, EU a foe?

Postby Sandy » Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:29 pm

Haruo wrote:I think today quite a few of the GOP wised up.


After some awkward, jaw-dropping moments of incredulity, I think you're right. Actually, I think most of them, those in party leadership at least, have been pretty "wised-up" all along, and were just hoping beyond hope that constant distractions and continuous appeals to the "bias of the left wing media" would keep the lid on as long as possible. But Trump is a boiling pot and the scum is coming to the surface and knocking the lid off, so to speak. I think he is insane, not figuratively, literally, a crackpot whose inept handling of the presidency puts the country in grave danger.

Ronald Reagan is rolling over in his grave.
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Re: Russia a friend, EU a foe?

Postby Dave Roberts » Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:08 pm

45's actions to say he believes Putin over his own intelligence agencies is definitely a form of treasonous behavior. Whether it will finally move the House of Representatives is a completely different matter. This one is hard for me to comprehend. Understand that the WH is in damage control trying to walk back what he said in Helsinki.
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Re: Russia a friend, EU a foe?

Postby Haruo » Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:10 pm

Unfortunately he's backpedaling today.
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Re: Russia a friend, EU a foe?

Postby Tim Bonney » Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:11 pm

It appears from some brief news stories I’ve seen that Trump is going some back peddling.
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Re: Russia a friend, EU a foe?

Postby Sandy » Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:56 pm

No American President has ever looked more diminished, and more subservient to the Russian leader than Trump now looks compared to Putin. I hope the reaction of Republicans was sincere horror, and not just realization of the political impact. Republicans love to think of Ronald Reagan as the president who caused Russia to lose its superpower status. Trump has just become the President who gave it back.
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Re: Russia a friend, EU a foe?

Postby Tim Bonney » Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:59 pm

Sandy wrote:No American President has ever looked more diminished, and more subservient to the Russian leader than Trump now looks compared to Putin. I hope the reaction of Republicans was sincere horror, and not just realization of the political impact. Republicans love to think of Ronald Reagan as the president who caused Russia to lose its superpower status. Trump has just become the President who gave it back.


Trump’s recent statement that he meant “wouldn’t” instead of “would” was clearly written by staff to seek to lesson damage. One commentator said he looked like he was reading a hostage statement.
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Re: Russia a friend, EU a foe?

Postby Haruo » Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:50 pm

He knows perfectly well how to do this. He's said diametrically opposite things within a few days or weeks of each other on more subjects than I can count. The mind-boggling thing is that so many still follow him.
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Re: Russia a friend, EU a foe?

Postby Haruo » Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:51 pm

Image
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Re: Russia a friend, EU a foe?

Postby Haruo » Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:52 pm

Reminds me just a bit of Mrs. Agnew's Diary.
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Re: Russia a friend, EU a foe?

Postby Tim Bonney » Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:32 am

It makes you wonder how many GOP leaders would have worked even harder to get another candidate on the ballot for the GOP if they’d known in advance what Trump was going to do.
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Re: Russia a friend, EU a foe?

Postby Dave Roberts » Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:45 am

Tim Bonney wrote:It makes you wonder how many GOP leaders would have worked even harder to get another candidate on the ballot for the GOP if they’d known in advance what Trump was going to do.


Trump was able to exploit a divided GOP in the primaries. When there had to be an undercard debate before the main debate and a crowded stage on which only the most outrageous and caustic could gain attention, the stage was open to a demagogue political novice who had never served any interests but his own. I am reading a book right now on Hitler and the Weimar Republic called "The Death of Democracy." There are a lot of parallels between the political divisions and chaos that brought Hitler to power and that which gave Trump the GOP nomination.
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Re: Russia a friend, EU a foe?

Postby KeithE » Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:16 am

Tim Bonney wrote:It makes you wonder how many GOP leaders would have worked even harder to get another candidate on the ballot for the GOP if they’d known in advance what Trump was going to do.

I suspect that some percentage of Congress (maybe 30-60%) have been in it for the money. Trump’s (1) personal example of non-accountability (ie refusal to release tax returns), (2) his deregulation of financial and environmental laws, and (3) his choice to look the other way to financial malfeasance (e.g. Scott Pruitt) greatly amplifies this corruption of democracy.

Couple that with the need to raise money for campaigning and the perception that supporting Trump helps their electability is taking us down the road of corruption (which I’ll define as using government for personal gain). Trump loves it, and loves the master of corruption (Putin - who is the world’s largest kleptocrat). No one knows what was talked about during his private hours long meeting with Putin - I suspect personal wealth accumulation was a large part of it.

We the people must
- demand a transcript (or a closest thing to it) from the Russian translator at the Putin/Trump talk - and have questioning under oath
- rise up and throw out all possible mini-kleptocrats we can in Nov congressional elections (my preference is for progressive new-comers who are not wealthy now)
- support cyber companies that have offered to defend our Nov 2018 elections (oversaw by a non-Trump selected government officials)
- immediate censure the President right now in Congress for his siding with Putin over that of all the US Intel sources; have a recorded vote
- follow up by impeachment and removal to dig into not only this summit fiasco but also much more
- demand that SC nominee Cavanaugh publicly drop his stance that a President is so busy s(he) should not but subject of investigation, lawsuit, or indictment (i.e. they should be above the law) and drop his theological insistent that corporations are people and therefore should be allowed to the "free" speech of contributing to campaigns - or better yet, just demand he not be approved
- have groups of media (augmented by specific public experts and late night comedians) focus on each the 100’s on going scandals in this administration and have an internet based website that keeps focus on each scandal (e.g Seth Abramson's blog about Russian meddling/Trump collusion - we simply cannot let our “4th rail” become saturated
- when you see good articles (Trump damning or defensive of his actions/words) pass it along here at Baptist life and elsewhere
- reform Campaign Finance laws so that this never happens again
- overturn Citizen’s United
- get involved in national protests (e.g one of tonight’s over 200 and counting protests Confront Corruption/Demand Democracy)
- Republican Trump supporters - sit down, study the facts and rethink your support
- what's your idea?

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Re: Russia a friend, EU a foe?

Postby Joseph Patrick » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:06 am

from Gerry Milligan ... aka Joseph Patrick

I cannot help but notice that the most vocal repubs at Baptist Life.com have not said a word. I wonder why.
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Re: Russia a friend, EU a foe?

Postby William Thornton » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:46 am

Yeah, Gerry, make that argument from silence.

No one but Jim ever messes with the trump stuff here. Waste of time.
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