Moderator: Jon Estes
KeithE wrote:Pruitt may be gone but he leaves a negative legacy.
76 Environmental Rules on the Way Out Under Trump76 Environmental Rules on the Way Out Under Trump is a nice start. I'm looking forward to seeing Andrew Wheeler knock off the next 176 Obama regulations. The EPA will soon be back to being an environmental agency that does some honest good.
Not at all sure Andrew Wheeler will be better in this regard. As far as personal spending scandals (read 13 Pruitt scandals), he may be better.Wheeler may not be better than Pruitt but he will certainly be a good EPA administrator. Here's my take on Pruitt. He's Best EPA Chief in History
David Flick wrote:KeithE wrote:Pruitt may be gone but he leaves a negative legacy.
76 Environmental Rules on the Way Out Under Trump76 Environmental Rules on the Way Out Under Trump is a nice start. I'm looking forward to seeing Andrew Wheeler knock off the next 176 Obama regulations. The EPA will soon be back to being an environmental agency that does some honest good.
Not at all sure Andrew Wheeler will be better in this regard. As far as personal spending scandals (read 13 Pruitt scandals), he may be better.Wheeler may not be better than Pruitt but he will certainly be a good EPA administrator. Here's my take on Pruitt. He's Best EPA Chief in History
Sandy wrote:If all that existed against Pruitt were allegations, there'd have been no need for him to resign.
We have certainly turned a corner in this country, and especially among people of faith, when corrupt, immoral liars and cheaters are held up as examples of being "the best". The EPA has been nothing but a disaster since Pruitt, and a hole down which he threw taxpayer dollars.
Under Trump the EPA will never have decent, credible, honest leadership, nor will any other government agency.
David Flick wrote:KeithE wrote:Pruitt may be gone but he leaves a negative legacy.
76 Environmental Rules on the Way Out Under Trump76 Environmental Rules on the Way Out Under Trump is a nice start. I'm looking forward to seeing Andrew Wheeler knock off the next 176 Obama regulations. The EPA will soon be back to being an environmental agency that does some honest good.
Not at all sure Andrew Wheeler will be better in this regard. As far as personal spending scandals (read 13 Pruitt scandals), he may be better.Wheeler may not be better than Pruitt but he will certainly be a good EPA administrator. Here's my take on Pruitt. He's Best EPA Chief in History
KeithE wrote:I like the new picture. But same old bluster.Hilarious... Anything that fails to agree with your view is "bluster."
David Flick wrote:David Flick wrote:KeithE wrote:Pruitt may be gone but he leaves a negative legacy.
76 Environmental Rules on the Way Out Under Trump76 Environmental Rules on the Way Out Under Trump is a nice start. I'm looking forward to seeing Andrew Wheeler knock off the next 176 Obama regulations. The EPA will soon be back to being an environmental agency that does some honest good.
Not at all sure Andrew Wheeler will be better in this regard. As far as personal spending scandals (read 13 Pruitt scandals), he may be better.Wheeler may not be better than Pruitt but he will certainly be a good EPA administrator. Here's my take on Pruitt. He's Best EPA Chief in History
KeithE wrote:I like the new picture. But same old bluster.Hilarious... Anything that fails to agree with your view is "bluster."
David Flick wrote:Hilarious... Anything that fails to agree with your view is "bluster."
KeithE wrote:The difference David, is that I give DATA as a “bluster buster”.
Sandy wrote:Any data that comes from denialist sources is corporate purchased and paid for, and is completely unreliable.
David Flick wrote:Sandy wrote:Any data that comes from denialist sources is corporate purchased and paid for, and is completely unreliable.
Sandy wrote:Any data that comes from denialist sources is corporate purchased and paid for, and is completely unreliable.
David Flick wrote:
Sandy wrote:Thank you for your agreement and acknowledgement of the facts.
KeithE wrote:
The cause? Mainly growth in CO2 and other ghgs as well as deforestation. Now CO2 is over 400ppm; it oscillated between 180ppm and 300ppm for the last 800,000 years (before creation for young earth creationists)
This is my annual update.
Jim wrote:KeithE wrote:
The cause? Mainly growth in CO2 and other ghgs as well as deforestation. Now CO2 is over 400ppm; it oscillated between 180ppm and 300ppm for the last 800,000 years (before creation for young earth creationists)
This is my annual update.
I love this data. It goes back to Neanderthal man. I wonder how the DATA was recorded about 600,000 - 800,000 years ago when these folks lived in caves and occasionally ate each other, depending on the hunting. Maybe they smoked huge cigars and drove semi-Flintstones around. Maybe they invented the hockey-stick chart and the UN science gurus stole it.
Scientists can study Earth’s climate as far back as 800,000 years by drilling core samples from deep underneath the ice sheets of Greenland and Antarctica. Detailed information on air temperature and CO2 levels is trapped in these specimens. Current polar records show an intimate connection between atmospheric carbon dioxide and temperature in the natural world. In essence, when one goes up, the other one follows.
Jim wrote:I love this data. It goes back to Neanderthal man. I wonder how the DATA was recorded about 600,000 - 800,000 years ago when these folks lived in caves and occasionally ate each other, depending on the hunting. Maybe they smoked huge cigars and drove semi-Flintstones around. Maybe they invented the hockey-stick chart and the UN science gurus stole it.
KeithE wrote:1The data is from ice core data from Greenland and Antarctica. Read https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/ice-core-data-help-solve/
2Scientists can study Earth’s climate as far back as 800,000 years by drilling core samples from deep underneath the ice sheets of Greenland and Antarctica. Detailed information on air temperature and CO2 levels is trapped in these specimens. Current polar records show an intimate connection between atmospheric carbon dioxide and temperature in the natural world. In essence, when one goes up, the other one follows.
David Flick wrote:Jim wrote:I love this data. It goes back to Neanderthal man. I wonder how the DATA was recorded about 600,000 - 800,000 years ago when these folks lived in caves and occasionally ate each other, depending on the hunting. Maybe they smoked huge cigars and drove semi-Flintstones around. Maybe they invented the hockey-stick chart and the UN science gurus stole it.
KeithE wrote:1The data is from ice core data from Greenland and Antarctica. Read https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/ice-core-data-help-solve/
2Scientists can study Earth’s climate as far back as 800,000 years by drilling core samples from deep underneath the ice sheets of Greenland and Antarctica. Detailed information on air temperature and CO2 levels is trapped in these specimens. Current polar records show an intimate connection between atmospheric carbon dioxide and temperature in the natural world. In essence, when one goes up, the other one follows.
1) The DATA was interpreted and created by warmist scientists associated with the Scientific American. The Scientific American is a pseudo-scientific publication which deals in a host of wild and crazy, other-worldly stuff. Actually, the publication mostly dabbles with global warming alarmism as a sideline. It has lost credibility with credible scientists. Here is an evaluation of the publication by biochemist Dr. Larry Moran, who is a Professor Emeritus in the Department of Biochemistry at the University of Toronto.
2) The graph posted by Keith, via the Scientific American, superimposes Michael Mann's long ago debunked hockey stick temperature graph on to a CO2 graph. Look at it again. The Scientific American graph measures 800,000 years of atmospheric CO2 of never rising above 300 PPM. Then by some alarming catastrophic reason, suddenly in the space of just 65 years, it literally goes off the chart!! Only in the world of global warming alarmism can one imagine that over 800 millennia, the atmospheric CO2 levels could NEVER have risen above 300 PPM.
Here is a better and more accurate graph depicting atmospheric CO2 levels covering 600 mellennia. Here's the commentary on the preceding graph.
It's interesting that Keith should mention Greenland and Antarctica ans being the source for information supporting global warming. The facts of the matter are that both Greenland and Antarctic are experiencing global cooling. Here's an article that mentions both Greenland and Anarctica. Here's another. And one more.
A 2010 opinion piece by David Frank, Jan Esper, Eduardo Zorita and Rob Wilson (Frank et al. 2010) noted that by then over two dozen large-scale climate reconstructions had been published, showing a broad consensus that there had been exceptional 20th century warming after earlier climatic phases, notably the Medieval Warm Period and Little Ice Age. There were still issues of large-scale natural variability to be resolved, especially for the lowest frequency variations, and they called for further research to improve expert assessment of proxies and to develop reconstruction methods explicitly allowing for structural uncertainties in the process.[13]
New studies using different methods continued to extend the period covered by reconstructions. Ljungqvist's 2,000 year extratropical Northern Hemisphere reconstruction generally agreed well with Mann et al. 2008, though it used different methods and covered a different area.[212] Studies by Christiansen and Ljungqvist investigated previous underestimation of low-frequency variability, and reaffirmed Mann et al.'s conclusions about the Little Ice Age and the Medieval Warm Period.[213] as did Ljungqvist et al. 2012 which used a larger network of proxies than previous studies. Marcott et al. 2013 used seafloor and lake bed sediment proxies to reconstruct global temperatures over the past 11,300 years, the last 1,000 years of which confirmed the original MBH99 hockey stick graph.[214]
With these ice cores, the team was able to validate satellite measurements that showed Greenland’s ice sheet was shrinking. They found year-to-year variation in the melt rate but observed that the overall transformation of ice into liquid water was speeding up. Greenland loses on average of 270 billion tons of ice each year.
The rapid increase in melting came as a decade-long pattern of atmospheric blocking — where warm air stalls over Greenland — converged with a warming phase in the ocean circulation cycle and the long-term warming trend in the climate.
Sandy wrote:Looks like the data Keith presented was based on real research and fact. David's stuff is corporate funded. There's nothing credible in the attempted refutation.Gotta hand it to you, Sandy. You have a vivid imagination and are easy prey for propagandists.
I remember a joke from years ago about what God is going to do to various Christian denominations when they get to heaven, that Baptists will have to go to a private room for 10,000 years so that God can gradually let them know there are others there, and that the Church of Christ folks will be chained to a piano for 10,000 years singing hymns. I think global warming denialists will be placed on a melting iceberg somewhere around where the Titanic went down, and they'll have to keep saying, "global warming is real, global warming is real, global warming is real."...And you are also fantastic at reciting corny jokes.
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