Gorsuch in, Kennedy out, Trump gets one more...

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Gorsuch in, Kennedy out, Trump gets one more...

Postby William Thornton » Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:36 am

...any questions.

Mitch McConnell is looking better and better.
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Re: Gorsuch in, Kennedy out, Trump gets one more...

Postby KeithE » Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:53 am

McConnell is looking like a partisan hack. One philosophy with a Democratic picked candidate, a differing one when a Republican will pick one.

One good thing, imo, that may happen is that Roe vs Wade may be overturned. But that is about all I can say positive.

Hang on Ruth! Come to your senses Neil!
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Re: Gorsuch in, Kennedy out, Trump gets one more...

Postby Sandy » Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:44 am

Don't think they can get it done. They're down to one seat in the senate, without McCain, and with Flake and Corker in rebellion, they don't have the votes.
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Re: Gorsuch in, Kennedy out, Trump gets one more...

Postby KeithE » Thu Jun 28, 2018 12:13 pm

Sandy wrote:Don't think they can get it done. They're down to one seat in the senate, without McCain, and with Flake and Corker in rebellion, they don't have the votes.


Hope you are right.

BTW, I think the Dems should follow Michelle and "go high" consistently - a prompt Supreme Sort nominee vote should happen, and no one should harass any Trumpian at a restaurant.

Affront what you consider bad policy/acts in the public square (or on blogs) as a right/responsibility of each person. And study the matter before you affront.

Do away with Citizen’s United which gives corporations the right that only people legitimately have in this country.

Let Trump constantly harass people/groups/corporations he does not like in his daily tweets - accept that and turn the other cheek. That is the Jesus way.

Americans will eventually see who is honorable and who plays partisan (or in Trump’s case self-serving) politics.
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Re: Gorsuch in, Kennedy out, Trump gets one more...

Postby Sandy » Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:59 pm

KeithE wrote:Americans will eventually see who is honorable and who plays partisan (or in Trump’s case self-serving) politics.


Oh I think they do, and the percentage of those who see Trump as inept, incapable and corrupt grows with each passing month. The Democrats are pretty understated in their fretting and worrying over only holding a 7-9 point lead in the "generic polls," but if you go district by district, they have a lot to celebrate. Doesn't look like Dems will drop any senate seats, and might pick up a minimum of 4, maybe 5. All thanks to the "anti-trump effect".
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Re: Gorsuch in, Kennedy out, Trump gets one more...

Postby Neil Heath » Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:28 pm

KeithE wrote:McConnell is looking like a partisan hack. One philosophy with a Democratic picked candidate, a differing one when a Republican will pick one.

One good thing, imo, that may happen is that Roe vs Wade may be overturned. But that is about all I can say positive.

Hang on Ruth! Come to your senses Neil!


Huh? What did I do? :)
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Re: Gorsuch in, Kennedy out, Trump gets one more...

Postby KeithE » Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:49 pm

Neil Heath wrote:
KeithE wrote:McConnell is looking like a partisan hack. One philosophy with a Democratic picked candidate, a differing one when a Republican will pick one.

One good thing, imo, that may happen is that Roe vs Wade may be overturned. But that is about all I can say positive.

Hang on Ruth! Come to your senses Neil!


Huh? What did I do? :)


Gorsuch not Heath. You are already sensible.
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Re: Gorsuch in, Kennedy out, Trump gets one more...

Postby Neil Heath » Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:27 pm

Thanks, Keith. I'll tell my wife.
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Re: Gorsuch in, Kennedy out, Trump gets one more...

Postby Rvaughn » Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:15 pm

She may not be nearly as quick to believe it as Keith is! :D
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Re: Gorsuch in, Kennedy out, Trump gets one more...

Postby Dave Roberts » Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:31 am

My "supreme disappointment" is that rather than having an independence to the judiciary, the purpose of the Founding Fathers is being thwarted by the selection of people whose votes are not based on the evidence heard in a courtroom but on a partisan litmus test. To me, the system has been corrupted by the extreme partisanship displayed in the selection of Supreme Court and Appeals Court appointees. I see this as coming back to bite our Republic. The original idea of appointing justices for life was that they could function independently from whoever might be in the other two branches of the federal government. The system in being murdered by both parties.
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Re: Gorsuch in, Kennedy out, Trump gets one more...

Postby William Thornton » Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:14 am

Dave Roberts wrote:My "supreme disappointment" is that rather than having an independence to the judiciary, the purpose of the Founding Fathers is being thwarted by the selection of people whose votes are not based on the evidence heard in a courtroom but on a partisan litmus test. To me, the system has been corrupted by the extreme partisanship displayed in the selection of Supreme Court and Appeals Court appointees. I see this as coming back to bite our Republic. The original idea of appointing justices for life was that they could function independently from whoever might be in the other two branches of the federal government. The system in being murdered by both parties.


Absolutely. Somebody ought to do something about that liberal block.

Shoulda had a better candidate in 2016.
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Re: Gorsuch in, Kennedy out, Trump gets one more...

Postby Dave Roberts » Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:27 am

William Thornton wrote:
Dave Roberts wrote:My "supreme disappointment" is that rather than having an independence to the judiciary, the purpose of the Founding Fathers is being thwarted by the selection of people whose votes are not based on the evidence heard in a courtroom but on a partisan litmus test. To me, the system has been corrupted by the extreme partisanship displayed in the selection of Supreme Court and Appeals Court appointees. I see this as coming back to bite our Republic. The original idea of appointing justices for life was that they could function independently from whoever might be in the other two branches of the federal government. The system in being murdered by both parties.


Absolutely. Somebody ought to do something about that liberal block.

Shoulda had a better candidate in 2016.


William, in case you haven't read my posts several years ago, I raised the same issue back a decade or so ago. I'm convinced the last time we had an independent judiciary was the Warren Court that went where Eisenhower never expected the chief justice to lead. There was also an effort at court packing back in the FDR administration as well. Get a grip on something before 2016.
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Re: Gorsuch in, Kennedy out, Trump gets one more...

Postby Sandy » Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:56 pm

I really do hope that the Democrats take the high road with this, as encouraged by Michelle Obama, and rather than throw up obstructionist roadblocks, make sure the process selects a justice based on his qualifications, not on his political opinions. There are enough moderate Republicans in the senate to ensure that some right wing nut job doesn't get on the bench. If their concern about Roe v. Wade brings this down to a single-issue, Roberts plus Sotomayor, Kagan, Ginsberg and Breyer is a pro-choice majority, and the Roberts court has signaled on more than one occasion that it is not interested in overturning it. Thomas is the only justice who has openly stated he would vote to overturn. If there aren't a couple of renegade Republican senators, and the nominee is qualified, let it go. If that's the route they go, it will be to their great benefit when they do get back in control.

Anti-trump sentiment runs quite high, higher than any other modern president has experienced. The Democrats just need to let that settle in and ride the wave. In just a little over a year, in regular elections, Democrats have turned two state legislatures, and gained more seats in a third in a single election than in its history, along with the top three state officers all Democrats winning by comfortable margins. The special elections have been a fountain of good cheer for the Democrats, especially since many of those who ran did so against ten times the money, and either won outright, or lost by fractional percentages in districts where the Republican incumbent either ran unopposed, or won by double digits in 2016. And of course, there was the crown jewel of special elections, the Alabama senate seat. The Democrats don't need to feed the anti-trump sentiment, it grows on its own. They just need to focus on the issues, like the wonderful gift Trump immigration policy has given them, hope that his tweeter doesn't get broken or taken away, and they're set.
Last edited by Sandy on Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Gorsuch in, Kennedy out, Trump gets one more...

Postby KeithE » Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:43 pm

William Thornton wrote:
Dave Roberts wrote:My "supreme disappointment" is that rather than having an independence to the judiciary, the purpose of the Founding Fathers is being thwarted by the selection of people whose votes are not based on the evidence heard in a courtroom but on a partisan litmus test. To me, the system has been corrupted by the extreme partisanship displayed in the selection of Supreme Court and Appeals Court appointees. I see this as coming back to bite our Republic. The original idea of appointing justices for life was that they could function independently from whoever might be in the other two branches of the federal government. The system in being murdered by both parties.


Absolutely. Somebody ought to do something about that liberal block.

Shoulda had a better candidate in 2016.


You do realize don’t you that even if Hillary had won, the GOP plan was to stop any Clinton SCOTUS nominee for at least 4 years.

McConnell's Record

With Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump in tight contention, McConnell was hedging his bets. At the same time, the GOP had planned to block any nominations by Hillary Clinton, should Clinton have won the election


In 2016, McConnell spoke regularly about why he wouldn’t advance Garland. “The next justice could fundamentally alter the direction of the Supreme Court and have a profound impact on our country, so of course the American people should have a say in the court’s direction,” McConnell said in March 2016. “Give the people a voice in filling this vacancy.” In a tweet from his account on March 15, 2016, he wrote, “The next justice could dramatically change the direction of #SCOTUS for decades. The American people deserve a voice in that conversation.”


He wanted to wait 8 months for that voice in 2016 but will not offer to wait less than 5 months for the November voice of the people in 2018.
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Re: Gorsuch in, Kennedy out, Trump gets one more...

Postby Haruo » Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:24 am

I'm much more concerned with whether the president is determined to select the candidate who is least likely to obstruct his goal of destroying the balance of powers among the branches of the Federal government than I am with the specifics of reproductive freedom vs. fetal humanhood or the codification of legal definitions of marriageability. I always bear in mind his statement that maybe it was time to do away with the Constitution, and it worries me.
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Re: Gorsuch in, Kennedy out, Trump gets one more...

Postby KeithE » Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:32 pm

I am most concerned about a candidate’s stance on overturning Citizen’s United (passed in 2010. It has made our country "by the corporation and for the corporation" and the corporations are not passing their recent bonanzas along to their workers or their client purchasers. Just more money flowing upward since 2010.

Image

And the new GOP/Trump tax law will further enhance corporative profits and those savings are not (yet) being passed along to workers. Nor is it being turned into investments to build those products - there is a dearth of spenders to buy those products.

Read TRUMP’S TAX CUTS DIDN’T BENEFIT U.S. WORKERS, MADE RICH COMPANIES RICHER, ANALYSIS FINDS

But a new analysis of all Fortune 500 companies found only 4.3 percent of workers will receive a one-time bonus or wage increase tied to the business tax cuts


and

The newest projections by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office found that the Republican tax plan led to, in part, a 2018 deficit $242 billion higher than previously estimated.


Many other issues involved in selecting SCOTUS justices. But this weighs high with me.
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Re: Gorsuch in, Kennedy out, Trump gets one more...

Postby Sandy » Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:41 pm

Looking at the lists that have shown up on the media reports, I don't see any right wing nut jobs or loonies. The ones that seem to be in the running are Bush-era appointees, and while they are "conservative" from a legal and judicial perspective, they'd be more moderate if they were politicians. I don't see anything alarming or Trump-like about any of them. That's a lifetime appointment, and that has a tendency to alter even stated positions once the appointment is confirmed. I think the Democrats could trump Trump's bungling attempt to make this into a media circus by simply going along with the pick, in contrast to the hissy-fit the Republicans threw when Obama dared do his job and name an appointment a year before an election. The Dems can add votes to their mounting pile, especially from independents, by just letting this one through.
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Re: Gorsuch in, Kennedy out, Trump gets one more...

Postby Tim Bonney » Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:55 am

Interesting thoughts Sandy. Kaveneaugh’s most Trumpian viewpoint seems to be that the President can’t be charged with any crimes while in office. I know there is a constitutional argument to be made both ways on that. But I wonder if that figured into his pick at all.
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Re: Gorsuch in, Kennedy out, Trump gets one more...

Postby Haruo » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:02 am

Are there seriously judges who believe that if a sitting President rapes and kills his bodyguard, he can't be charged with a crime until after the conviction on the impeachment goes through? Can he be "detained"?
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Re: Gorsuch in, Kennedy out, Trump gets one more...

Postby Dave Roberts » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:12 am

Haruo wrote:Are there seriously judges who believe that if a sitting President rapes and kills his bodyguard, he can't be charged with a crime until after the conviction on the impeachment goes through? Can he be "detained"?


Totally uncharted territory. It seems that in the past we expected some moral standards for the POTUS, even if we allowed some latitude on sexual ethics. Now it appears that moral standards and legal ones seem to waver constantly.
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Re: Gorsuch in, Kennedy out, Trump gets one more...

Postby Sandy » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:08 am

Tim Bonney wrote:Interesting thoughts Sandy. Kaveneaugh’s most Trumpian viewpoint seems to be that the President can’t be charged with any crimes while in office. I know there is a constitutional argument to be made both ways on that. But I wonder if that figured into his pick at all.


I would almost bet that it was a deciding factor. Most of his judicial appointments have been either corporate favorites, or those who he thinks might benefit him in the long run in the event that his criminal activity gets used as a wedge in the Mueller investigation. Everything Trump has done from a judicial perspective has been to attempt to hedge his bets when it comes to the ongoing investigations into the Russian help he got, and the potential obstruction of justice charges in the Comey firing and the porn star scandals.

I'm seeing some interesting posts from some of my conservative friends on social media. They don't see Kavanaugh as being as inclined to overturn Roe v. Wade as Barrett or Kethledge would have been. Most of Reagan and both Bushs' appointments were not really activist when it came to Roe, and Thomas is the only one who has publicly said he would vote to overturn it. In all honesty, I don't think the court will ever overturn it. I think the bigger issue involves health care, especially pre-existing conditions.
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Re: Gorsuch in, Kennedy out, Trump gets one more...

Postby Tim Bonney » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:10 am

Haruo wrote:Are there seriously judges who believe that if a sitting President rapes and kills his bodyguard, he can't be charged with a crime until after the conviction on the impeachment goes through? Can he be "detained"?


One would hope not. But I've heard arguments to the effect that the President can't be charged with crimes before being impeached and convicted. It doesn't make sense to me. But I also am not a constitutional expert either.
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Re: Gorsuch in, Kennedy out, Trump gets one more...

Postby Sandy » Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:52 pm

There's a quote in this article from Kavanaugh on the matter. The issue has apparently come up just one other time, pertaining to Nixon. If a sitting President can't be indicted, then there's a conflict of interest because he gets to appoint the judges that would make that decision. No one is above the law, including the President. On the other hand, if he can be indicted or arrested, that makes him vulnerable to political motivation.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/29/us/p ... icted.html
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Re: Gorsuch in, Kennedy out, Trump gets one more...

Postby Tim Bonney » Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:01 pm

Sandy wrote:There's a quote in this article from Kavanaugh on the matter. The issue has apparently come up just one other time, pertaining to Nixon. If a sitting President can't be indicted, then there's a conflict of interest because he gets to appoint the judges that would make that decision. No one is above the law, including the President. On the other hand, if he can be indicted or arrested, that makes him vulnerable to political motivation.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/29/us/p ... icted.html


Isn't the 25th Amendment the potential solution to such a problem? If a President became unhinged you would think the cabinet would feel empowered to act to remove them.

The US constitution does create a stronger executive than a parliamentary system. I have days where I wonder if that was a good idea. We set aside the monarchy and the over time have placed huge power in the hands of the Executive Branch more than other democracies. It is what it is. But I wonder sometimes if we've over empowered the office.
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Re: Gorsuch in, Kennedy out, Trump gets one more...

Postby Haruo » Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:42 pm

Ours was an experiment. Later democracies (including Britain once the monarch really got out of the policymaking business) have learned a thing or two from our mistakes as well as from our successes. It really surprises me how few GOP lawmakers seem willing, yet, to say much that's critical of Trump. I would think that with Pence as the alternative they would be less hesitant.
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