I hear the crickets chirping...

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I hear the crickets chirping...

Postby Jon Estes » Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:30 am

Where is the collusion rant? I thought that crime was the end of Trump? No escape for his colluding with the Russians seemed to be the thought from some here. What happened?

My bet - Those who cried collusion are just as wrong on the other claims that they have assured us will bring DT down.

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Re: I hear the crickets chirping...

Postby Sandy » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:07 am

Crickets chirping? Must be those warm desert nights. It certainly can't be anything related to the Mueller investigation, which has identified the specific Russians who were involved in the election interference, the specific conversations they had with Trump campaign officials, including recordings of American spies, laid down indictments with specific charges, got guilty pleas from the conspirators and made deals in exchange for testimony, and last week moved Trump's status to being a "subject" of the investigation. Maybe the crickets on the Arabian peninsula are much louder than the ones over here, where the evidence for collusion between Trump and the Russians is drowning out the chirps.

Let's see. They've got Flynn, Page, Van der Zwaan, Papadopoulous, Gates and Manafort, and the specific dates of either the meetings they had with the Russian operatives known to have been involved in the collusion, or those who helped make the contact, or the attempts to cover it up and obstruct justice.

There's really not a lot to say that you can't easily pick up in the daily media reports. I'm just watching and waiting. I got pretty excited when they raided Cohen's office and a red-faced, blustering, stammering, slurring Trump started threatening to fire Mueller. That would be the quickest path to a Trump-free America. He can't directly fire Mueller anyway, that pathway would have to go through Sessions, and since he recused himself, Rosenstein. But even though the leading Republicans haven't really done much except hide out for months, it seems pretty clear that McConnell and Ryan will step in to protect both of them. Option two is to simply wait until the investigation is finished and the results come out. I'm confident, along with 70% of the voters, that it is chock full of evidences of direct collusion, and will produce an indictment that will force an impeachment proceeding.

No need to comment, the investigation is proceeding merrily along and we'll just wait for it to conclude. :lol:

Here's something to get rid of those pesky crickets for you.

https://billmoyers.com/story/trump-russia-timeline/
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show
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Re: I hear the crickets chirping...

Postby KeithE » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:40 am

Jon Estes wrote:Where is the collusion rant? I thought that crime was the end of Trump? No escape for his colluding with the Russians seemed to be the thought from some here. What happened?

My bet - Those who cried collusion are just as wrong on the other claims that they have assured us will bring DT down.

Wishful thinking is not where you ought to put your money.


You are not looking very seriously.

All the known times the Trump campaign met with Russians.

Despite denials from the campaign and the White House, it is now clear that members of the Trump campaign interacted with Russians at least 32 times throughout the campaign. (There are at least 20 known meetings.)

These are all detailed in the remainder of the article. Meetings/contacts do represent some evidence and lying about those meetings/contacts is further evidence of something to hide.

True just meetings do not prove any action came from these contacts/meetings. But when you consider:
- Russian troll farms inundating US social media (Russian helping Trump and hurting Hillary)
- Trump campaign changing GOP policy platform about Ukraine (Trump campaign helping Russia)
- Russian/Wikileaks hacking and releasing DNC emails (Russia helping Trump and hurting Hillary)
- Russia meddling with several states election machinery (Russia meddling in our election)
- Trump calling for more releasing emails (Trump egging Russia on to help him more)
- Trump ignoring Congressional direction to impose tougher sanctions and even enforce Obama sanctions -deadline Oct 2017 (Trump helping Russia)
- Trump Jr trying to create secretive backchannel between Trump and the Kremlin during the campaign
- Erik Prince trying to create secretive backchannel between Trump and the Kremlin during the Transition

Plus consider all the bulleted items in Adam Schiff: There is 'ample evidence' of collusion between Trump campaign, Russians (some overlap with the above).

So don’t tell me there is NO evidence. The indictments just have not come out yet. There has been no declaration of no collusion coming from Mueller. He is obviously still at work.

It is true that recently Trump reluctantly signed something calling for sanction enforcement (6 months after Congressional deadline) but is that happening?

It is true this morning that Trump is talking tough to Russia about Syria - very dangerously, imo. Is that a "must do" to prove he can be tough on Russia given his current predicament? Is the collusion over since the election is a fait comple and the compromising material (e.g. Miss Universe behavior) no longer brings any more shame to Trump?

I suggest that it is your wishful thinking that has closed your eyes.
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Re: I hear the crickets chirping...

Postby Sandy » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:53 am

KeithE wrote:It is true this morning that Trump is talking tough to Russia about Syria - very dangerously, imo. Is that a "must do" to prove he can be tough on Russia given his current predicament?


It's because he stuck his finger up to see which way the polling wind was blowing, discovered that his base is cracking and eroding over this particular issue, and decided to do some tough talking. All that really happened, though, was that he proved how inept he is because right before he got tough on them, he was about to pull out of Syria completely. Putin is the puppet master, making the Trump puppet dance, and this is just the result of one of the strings breaking. A lot of Trump supporters are hard line anti-foreigner, and particularly anti-Russian "America First" tea nuts. The pass he is getting from them on this has about run its course.

He can lip flap and jabber all he wants to about President Obama, but following the Obama strategy down to the dotting of i's and crossing of t's is how he has operated in the Middle East since he was elected, to the point of not even changing any of the state department or defense department personnel.
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Re: I hear the crickets chirping...

Postby Tim Bonney » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:19 am

Trump's lawyer's office is raided by the FBI and you hear cricket's chirp? There are several steps that Trump might take now that would amount to obstruction of justice. Trump is very careful to use the word "collusion" because it isn't a legal term. But obstructing a government investigation is legal. He fired Comey. If he fires Mueler the liklihood obstruction charges is so high that Charles Grassley said for Trump to fire the special council would be suicide. And Grassley isn't one of those liberal Dems wants to see Trump gone.

Rather than crickets, you may be hearing gears turning on a very methodical and careful investigation which will lead to the truth, rather than anyone's political opinion.
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Re: I hear the crickets chirping...

Postby Jon Estes » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:38 am

Tim Bonney wrote:Trump's lawyer's office is raided by the FBI and you hear cricket's chirp? There are several steps that Trump might take now that would amount to obstruction of justice. Trump is very careful to use the word "collusion" because it isn't a legal term. But obstructing a government investigation is legal. He fired Comey. If he fires Mueler the liklihood obstruction charges is so high that Charles Grassley said for Trump to fire the special council would be suicide. And Grassley isn't one of those liberal Dems wants to see Trump gone.

Rather than crickets, you may be hearing gears turning on a very methodical and careful investigation which will lead to the truth, rather than anyone's political opinion.


I’m not sure if saying “if”... makes the case for collusion. Mueller did say Trump is not target of criminal target of Russia prove.

The crickets sounds I speak of are the silence from those who were convicting Trump a while back. It seems when the press dropped the conviction language and false prophecies, so did the comments here.
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Re: I hear the crickets chirping...

Postby Sandy » Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:23 pm

Jon Estes wrote:I’m not sure if saying “if”... makes the case for collusion. Mueller did say Trump is not target of criminal target of Russia prove.

The crickets sounds I speak of are the silence from those who were convicting Trump a while back. It seems when the press dropped the conviction language and false prophecies, so did the comments here.


As I said, I'm just sitting back and watching. The conviction language hasn't dropped, in fact, it has accelerated, and the language is that Trump is not a "target" of the investigation is consistent with where the investigation has gone all along. But he wasn't even a subject of the investigation until that was announced a week ago, and he kept running around saying it wasn't about him. Now, after testimony laid out by witnesses who are all providing testimony in exchange for plea deals, it is about him. Constitutionally, if he's a subject of the investigation, which means that he had some degree of knowledge of the collusion while it was happening, then his firing of Comey, and a lot of other actions he's taken becomes obstruction of justice. Stormy Daniels is just another unfortunate (or fortunate depending on your position) incident with a whole new set of potential charges and association with Trump.

For those of us who are looking forward to Trump-free America, the news each day is a fountain of exciting developments and good cheer! :lol:

And hard upon that, comes this wonderful news.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/paul-ryan- ... 018-04-11/
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Re: I hear the crickets chirping...

Postby JE Pettibone » Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:14 pm

Ed: So Sandy, are you ready for a Pence residency?
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Re: I hear the crickets chirping...

Postby Sandy » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:07 pm

If that's how it turns out, then yes, especially with what appears to be the likely prospect of a Democratic-controlled Congress after November's election. That is, if he isn't named in the indictments and subject to impeachment himself. He's also under investigation.
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Re: I hear the crickets chirping...

Postby KeithE » Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:44 pm

Sandy wrote:If that's how it turns out, then yes, especially with what appears to be the likely prospect of a Democratic-controlled Congress after November's election. That is, if he isn't named in the indictments and subject to impeachment himself. He's also under investigation.

Hmmm ... maybe that is Ryan’s angle :wink:
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Re: I hear the crickets chirping...

Postby William Thornton » Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:21 am

I felt bad for my mod/lib friends when I woke up this morning after the election and saw the Hil lost, but I got over that as soon as the venom started flowing. I almost feel bad that some of the brethren have invested so much into impeachment or resignation. I placidly accepted Obama's election. We survived. The worm turned. It will turn again and the rabid left may be slightly happier for it.
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Re: I hear the crickets chirping...

Postby KeithE » Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:42 am

William Thornton wrote:I felt bad for my mod/lib friends when I woke up this morning after the election and saw the Hil lost, but I got over that as soon as the venom started flowing. I almost feel bad that some of the brethren have invested so much into impeachment or resignation. I placidly accepted Obama's election. We survived. The worm turned. It will turn again and the rabid left may be slightly happier for it.

One does not have to be "rabid left" to see that this President is unworthy of the office - habitually liar, sleazeball with women, sleazeball in business, 4 bankruptcies, lazy in doing his job, hypocrite (e.g. Obama golf too much), no regard for rule of law, serving the rich and corporations more than the people (e.g. tax cut distribution), uncontrolled tweeter (spends most of his time in narcissistic defense of himself), incompetent as President, and playing give and take with Putin ... Have Pence (or Ryan) take over the right wing agenda - some deregulation may be good.

And a word for Trumpers - please do to make this a civil war.
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Re: I hear the crickets chirping...

Postby William Thornton » Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:57 am

KeithE wrote:
William Thornton wrote:I felt bad for my mod/lib friends when I woke up this morning after the election and saw the Hil lost, but I got over that as soon as the venom started flowing. I almost feel bad that some of the brethren have invested so much into impeachment or resignation. I placidly accepted Obama's election. We survived. The worm turned. It will turn again and the rabid left may be slightly happier for it.

One does not have to be "rabid left" to see that this President is unworthy of the office - habitually liar, sleazeball with women, sleazeball in business, 4 bankruptcies, lazy in doing his job, hypocrite (e.g. Obama golf too much), no regard for rule of law, serving the rich and corporations more than the people (e.g. tax cut distribution), uncontrolled tweeter (spends most of his time in narcissistic defense of himself), incompetent as President, and playing give and take with Putin ... Have Pence (or Ryan) take over the right wing agenda - some deregulation may be good.

And a word for Trumpers - please do to make this a civil war.


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Re: I hear the crickets chirping...

Postby Haruo » Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:00 am

William Thornton wrote:I felt bad for my mod/lib friends when I woke up this morning after the election and saw the Hil lost, ...

Right. You just noticed today that Hil lost. Uh-huh.

And Keith, located as you are in Trump country, how can you want a civil war?
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Re: I hear the crickets chirping...

Postby William Thornton » Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:41 am

Haruo wrote:
William Thornton wrote:I felt bad for my mod/lib friends when I woke up this morning after the election and saw the Hil lost, ...

Right. You just noticed today that Hil lost. Uh-huh.

And Keith, located as you are in Trump country, how can you want a civil war?


I'm too old and too sensible to stay up late for election results. It was the political surprise of my life to wake up and see that Trump lost.

Of course, my mod/lib friends still think I'm asleep since I've often been told to "wake up!" by them.
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Re: I hear the crickets chirping...

Postby Sandy » Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:58 am

William Thornton wrote:I felt bad for my mod/lib friends when I woke up this morning after the election and saw the Hil lost, but I got over that as soon as the venom started flowing. I almost feel bad that some of the brethren have invested so much into impeachment or resignation. I placidly accepted Obama's election. We survived. The worm turned. It will turn again and the rabid left may be slightly happier for it.


I haven't invested anything into it. It's more the justice department, including the FBI, and a good chunk of Congress, and for most of them, its not like they went looking for it, or that the evidence sort of just leaked out. It hammered them on the head, and they had no choice but to deal with it. It's not like you couldn't know the scope of corruption and crude immorality that was coming with Trump. Actually, an impeachment and removal from office would likely boost the standing of the Republicans, and show that they actually have some integrity and some cajones, and aren't completely spineless. As long as Trump is in there, the Democrats chances for a sweep in the mid-terms are high, as Mitch McConnell likened what is happening to the GOP as a "category 5 hurricane."

https://crooksandliars.com/2018/04/mitc ... -hurricane

On the other hand, every day of the Trump presidency diminishes the integrity and respect the office of President should possess, and the longer he is in it, the more of a pathetic joke it will be.
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Re: I hear the crickets chirping...

Postby Tim Bonney » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:20 am

Jon Estes wrote:I’m not sure if saying “if”... makes the case for collusion. Mueller did say Trump is not target of criminal target of Russia prove.

The crickets sounds I speak of are the silence from those who were convicting Trump a while back. It seems when the press dropped the conviction language and false prophecies, so did the comments here.


Right he isn’t a target. If he becomes a target will depend on where the evidence leads. Mueller is too savvy to target people and then try to dig up evidence. He is following the evidence wherever it goes. Trump may not have been involved in his operative’s attempts to get Russian help. But I don’t know that we know that for sure yet.
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Re: I hear the crickets chirping...

Postby Joseph Patrick » Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:45 pm

From Gerry Milligan,
I cannot hear crickets chirping, but does a noose tightening make a sound? I think a lot of people might be listening for that.
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Re: I hear the crickets chirping...

Postby Sandy » Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:34 pm

William Thornton wrote:I felt bad for my mod/lib friends when I woke up this morning after the election and saw the Hil lost, but I got over that as soon as the venom started flowing. I almost feel bad that some of the brethren have invested so much into impeachment or resignation. I placidly accepted Obama's election. We survived. The worm turned. It will turn again and the rabid left may be slightly happier for it.


The difference was that when President Obama was elected, he didn't bring a train of corruption along with him, and six of his campaign officers hadn't colluded with a foreign power to change the outcome of the election like Trump did. It's not a matter of just accepting the results and moving on. It's a matter of accepting and endorsing the lack of moral character and integrity, and the illegal activity, Trump interjected into the process. Conservatives loudly flapped their lips over less of a lapse of morality and integrity in the early days of the religious right, when character mattered to them. No conservative would have tolerated anything remotely close from Obama that they now have to own with Trump.
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Re: I hear the crickets chirping...

Postby Jon Estes » Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:31 am

Joseph Patrick wrote:From Gerry Milligan,
I cannot hear crickets chirping, but does a noose tightening make a sound? I think a lot of people might be listening for that.


I am sure a lot of people are listening for a lot of things... things they will never hear.

Wishful thinking will only carry someone so far.
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Re: I hear the crickets chirping...

Postby Jon Estes » Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:41 am

Sandy wrote:
William Thornton wrote:I felt bad for my mod/lib friends when I woke up this morning after the election and saw the Hil lost, but I got over that as soon as the venom started flowing. I almost feel bad that some of the brethren have invested so much into impeachment or resignation. I placidly accepted Obama's election. We survived. The worm turned. It will turn again and the rabid left may be slightly happier for it.


The difference was that when President Obama was elected, he didn't bring a train of corruption along with him, and six of his campaign officers hadn't colluded with a foreign power to change the outcome of the election like Trump did.

Which of the six you speak of have been charged with collusion with a foreign power to change the outcome of the election?

It's not a matter of just accepting the results and moving on. It's a matter of accepting and endorsing the lack of moral character and integrity, and the illegal activity, Trump interjected into the process.

No. It's about accepting the will of the people who voted for him, knowing who he was and what baggage he was bringing with him. I am still unsure of what illegal activity he brought with him into the process. I know what the I hate Trump people accuse him of but that doesn't make it so. Many of these same people will think Comey's book is more factual than the Bible. Seeing the MSM fawn over this book is hilarious.

Conservatives loudly flapped their lips over less of a lapse of morality and integrity in the early days of the religious right, when character mattered to them. No conservative would have tolerated anything remotely close from Obama that they now have to own with Trump.

Many of the right evangelicals I have spoken with voted against Hillary just as many non-evangelicals voted against Trump. Neither candidate cornered the market on integrity and character.
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Re: I hear the crickets chirping...

Postby Tim Bonney » Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:15 am

Jon, "collusion" isn't a legal term. That is why Trump likes it so much. He can say, "no collusion" all he wants and a lawyer may never counter him on that. But, is there obstruction of justice? Will he tell the truth if interviewed in the investigation and lead to perjury? Did he participate in Russian attempts to influence the election violating election law?

He has chosen the word "collusion" quite carefully.
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Re: I hear the crickets chirping...

Postby Jon Estes » Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:48 am

Tim Bonney wrote:Jon, "collusion" isn't a legal term. That is why Trump likes it so much. He can say, "no collusion" all he wants and a lawyer may never counter him on that. But, is there obstruction of justice? Will he tell the truth if interviewed in the investigation and lead to perjury? Did he participate in Russian attempts to influence the election violating election law?

He has chosen the word "collusion" quite carefully.


You make it sound as if the term "collusion" was brought into the conversation by Trump. I do not remember it that way. The accusations from the get go on this was using the term "collusion".

But then again, everything is Trumps fault... to some.
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Re: I hear the crickets chirping...

Postby Sandy » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:21 am

Jon Estes wrote:But then again, everything is Trumps fault... to some.


No. But the evidence, testimony, indictments and direction this investigation has pointed so far would indicate that this most definitely is.
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Re: I hear the crickets chirping...

Postby KeithE » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:05 am

Jon Estes wrote:
Tim Bonney wrote:Jon, "collusion" isn't a legal term. That is why Trump likes it so much. He can say, "no collusion" all he wants and a lawyer may never counter him on that. But, is there obstruction of justice? Will he tell the truth if interviewed in the investigation and lead to perjury? Did he participate in Russian attempts to influence the election violating election law?

He has chosen the word "collusion" quite carefully.


You make it sound as if the term "collusion" was brought into the conversation by Trump. I do not remember it that way. The accusations from the get go on this was using the term "collusion".

But then again, everything is Trumps fault... to some.

Not matter what term is used, after this weekend it seems likely that Cohen met with Russians in Prague (despite denials that the has never been to Praque) to secretly discuss campaign matters soon after Manafort was outed as Trump’s campaign chairman. This supports what the Steele Dossier said - not all of which has been substantiated but none of which has been unsubstantiated.

Sources: Mueller has evidence Cohen was in Prague in 2016, confirming part of dossier. Read it! But it has not been collaborated. Mueller team does not leak (much).

But investigators have traced evidence that Cohen entered the Czech Republic through Germany, apparently during August or early September of 2016 as the ex-spy reported, said the sources, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation is confidential. He wouldn’t have needed a passport for such a trip, because both countries are in the so-called Schengen Area in which 26 nations operate with open borders. The disclosure still left a puzzle: The sources did not say whether Cohen took a commercial flight or private jet to Europe, and gave no explanation as to why no record of such a trip has surfaced.


https://www.vox.com/2018/4/13/17236660/michael-cohen-prague-trump-steele-dossier Read it!

If the McClatchy report was accurate, it would utterly devastate one of the Trump team’s leading arguments that there was no Trump-Russia collusion. That’s because, to be blunt, there is no reason for Cohen to try to debunk the Steele dossier by lying and saying that he didn’t visit Prague at all if he actually did, unless he was trying to cover up extremely serious wrongdoing that happened during that visit.


This just adds to other evidence of collusion (or coordination or give-and-take or whatever you want to call it):

- Russian troll farms inundating US social media (Russian helping Trump and hurting Hillary)
- Trump campaign changing GOP policy platform about Ukraine (Trump campaign helping Russia)
- Russian/Wikileaks hacking and releasing DNC emails (Russia helping Trump and hurting Hillary)
- Russia meddling with several states election machinery (Russia meddling in our election)
- Trump calling for more releasing emails (Trump egging Russia on to help him more)
- Trump ignoring Congressional direction to impose tougher sanctions and even enforce Obama sanctions -deadline Oct 2017 (Trump helping Russia)
- Trump Jr trying to create secretive backchannel between Trump and the Kremlin during the campaign
- Erik Prince trying to create secretive backchannel between Trump and the Kremlin during the Transition

as previously posted herein at http://forums.baptistlife.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=12809&p=173516#p173442
but not refuted.

Look also at what Sandy pointed out here that the WH carelessly released this photo
Image
showing Trump and Pence together hard at work supposedly discussing Syrian things last Friday night (April 13), though Pence was in Peru. Read more on that admitted story and the clarification at:
Trump's press secretary issues clarification after posting misleading photo
But why is Pence all of a sudden being the WH Syrian spokesman on Saturday from Peru?? I suspect Trump was otherwise focussed (probably on keeping his job).

Look at it seriously and objectively my friends, it is highly likely that there was some form of Trump Campaign cooperation with Russians to help him get elected. It may not be 100% publicly vetted yet, but it is close.

Over this weekend the vise has tightened on Trump and that is why this morning ‘The lawyers are not calm’: NYT reporter tells CNN that Trump’s attorneys are freaking out over Cohen raid

Being caught in lies is very telling.
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