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Re: Trump - A full term... or not

PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:40 am
by Joseph Patrick
From Gerry,

Gerry said: Jon,
While I support the office of president. I have supported the last six presidents (that I remember, some more than others). And I agree that we, as born again believers, should not call anyone derogatory names. Even for those who are thrice married, known adulterers, proven liars, bigoted racists who support white supremacists, who brag about sexually assaulting women and paying for sex while his third wife is having his son. So, I support your call to not call names of others.

Jon replied
I am sure we all have a list of sins (forgiven or not) attached to our lives. I'm not willing to make such a list of others because I do not want others to make a list on me. Matthew 7:12. I don't even want to say I'm so glad I am not like other men (Luke 18:9-14).

Gerry replied:
Galatians 6:1 says, "Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently. But watch yourselves, or you also may be tempted." For two reasons I might need to have a list of sins so that I might be careful to not be tempted and I would need to have a list of his sin so that I know how to approach him for restoration. Of course, if the person thinks that there is no sin in his life this approach might be moot.

Re: Trump - A full term... or not

PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:08 am
by JE Pettibone
Joseph Patrick wrote:From Gerry,

Gerry said: Jon,
While I support the office of president. I have supported the last six presidents (that I remember, some more than others). And I agree that we, as born again believers, should not call anyone derogatory names. Even for those who are thrice married, known adulterers, proven liars, bigoted racists who support white supremacists, who brag about sexually assaulting women and paying for sex while his third wife is having his son. So, I support your call to not call names of others.

Jon replied
I am sure we all have a list of sins (forgiven or not) attached to our lives. I'm not willing to make such a list of others because I do not want others to make a list on me. Matthew 7:12. I don't even want to say I'm so glad I am not like other men (Luke 18:9-14).

Gerry replied:
Galatians 6:1 says, "Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently. But watch yourselves, or you also may be tempted." For two reasons I might need to have a list of sins so that I might be careful to not be tempted and I would need to have a list of his sin so that I know how to approach him for restoration. Of course, if the person thinks that there is no sin in his life this approach might be moot.


Ed: Re read your Bible the sins are already there.

Re: Trump - A full term... or not

PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:43 am
by Jon Estes
Joseph Patrick wrote:From Gerry,

Gerry said: Jon,
While I support the office of president. I have supported the last six presidents (that I remember, some more than others). And I agree that we, as born again believers, should not call anyone derogatory names. Even for those who are thrice married, known adulterers, proven liars, bigoted racists who support white supremacists, who brag about sexually assaulting women and paying for sex while his third wife is having his son. So, I support your call to not call names of others.

Jon replied
I am sure we all have a list of sins (forgiven or not) attached to our lives. I'm not willing to make such a list of others because I do not want others to make a list on me. Matthew 7:12. I don't even want to say I'm so glad I am not like other men (Luke 18:9-14).

Gerry replied:
Galatians 6:1 says, "Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently. But watch yourselves, or you also may be tempted." 1 -For two reasons I might need to have a list of sins so that I might be careful to not be tempted and 2 - I would need to have a list of his sin so that I know how to approach him for restoration. Of course, if the person thinks that there is no sin in his life this approach might be moot.


SO, How does listing the sins of another on a website that that person does not look at help restore the person who you caught in sin?

I find your two reasons for listing them interesting and in context of the discussion I am not sure how your reasoning fits the context of the passage you quote you want to follow. Nonetheless...

1 - I will be praying for you, that you not fall into the sins you list and that you can be careful not be tempted,

2 - I will pray that you get the opportunity you want to have in meeting the President so you can approach Him in a Christ-like manner.

Re: Trump - A full term... or not

PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:52 am
by Joseph Patrick
Jon Estes wrote:
Joseph Patrick wrote:From Gerry,

Gerry said: Jon,
While I support the office of president. I have supported the last six presidents (that I remember, some more than others). And I agree that we, as born again believers, should not call anyone derogatory names. Even for those who are thrice married, known adulterers, proven liars, bigoted racists who support white supremacists, who brag about sexually assaulting women and paying for sex while his third wife is having his son. So, I support your call to not call names of others.

Jon replied
I am sure we all have a list of sins (forgiven or not) attached to our lives. I'm not willing to make such a list of others because I do not want others to make a list on me. Matthew 7:12. I don't even want to say I'm so glad I am not like other men (Luke 18:9-14).

Gerry replied:
Galatians 6:1 says, "Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently. But watch yourselves, or you also may be tempted." 1 -For two reasons I might need to have a list of sins so that I might be careful to not be tempted and 2 - I would need to have a list of his sin so that I know how to approach him for restoration. Of course, if the person thinks that there is no sin in his life this approach might be moot.


SO, How does listing the sins of another on a website that that person does not look at help restore the person who you caught in sin?

I find your two reasons for listing them interesting and in context of the discussion I am not sure how your reasoning fits the context of the passage you quote you want to follow. Nonetheless...

1 - I will be praying for you, that you not fall into the sins you list and that you can be careful not be tempted,

2 - I will pray that you get the opportunity you want to have in meeting the President so you can approach Him in a Christ-like manner.


So, Jon, thank you for your prayers that I do not fall into the temptations of listed sins...as a septuagenarian many of those listed do not apply. But many others do bother me. But, how do you apply Galatians 6:1 to your ministry if you are unaware of the sin you are trying to restore?

Re: Trump - A full term... or not

PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:19 am
by Jon Estes
Joseph Patrick wrote:Gerry replied:
Galatians 6:1 says, "Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently. But watch yourselves, or you also may be tempted." 1 -For two reasons I might need to have a list of sins so that I might be careful to not be tempted and 2 - I would need to have a list of his sin so that I know how to approach him for restoration. Of course, if the person thinks that there is no sin in his life this approach might be moot.

So, Jon, thank you for your prayers that I do not fall into the temptations of listed sins...as a septuagenarian many of those listed do not apply. But many others do bother me. But, how do you apply Galatians 6:1 to your ministry if you are unaware of the sin you are trying to restore?


Interesting that you would need to list the sins of someone else so that you might be careful to not be tempted... then state that some of those listed do not apply to you. So is the stated reason you listed them accurately or was it a slam against the president?

I can tell you how I do not apply Gal. 6:1. I do not believe, in any form, that it is teaching me to live my life to catch someone in their sin, though if I do, to deal with it in a way that honors Christ, not list them in a forum on the internet saying I am doing it to remind myself not to be tempted, then proclaim some of the sins on my list do not even apply to me.

I hope you do not interpret the Gal. passage as you have shown through your decisions to list the sins of others for reasons that you confess do not apply to you.

Re: Trump - A full term... or not

PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:34 pm
by Jim
Joseph Patrick wrote:
So, Jon, thank you for your prayers that I do not fall into the temptations of listed sins...as a septuagenarian many of those listed do not apply. But many others do bother me. But, how do you apply Galatians 6:1 to your ministry if you are unaware of the sin you are trying to restore?

Are septuagenarians a special class? I was such once (those happy days) and was just as mean then as I am now, a curmudgeonly octogenarian. Could one age into innocence? If so, I have a long ways to go and am afraid I will run out of time, which reminds me that I must get my driver-license renewed before I die and become susceptible to a ticket, posthumously, of course. What really puzzles me, though, is why one (even a septuagenarian) should try to restore a sin. Perhaps when you pass 80, you will simply lose the desire for such naughty restoration...or not.

Re: Trump - A full term... or not

PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:38 pm
by Haruo
JE Pettibone wrote:
Joseph Patrick wrote:From Gerry,

Gerry said: Jon,
While I support the office of president. I have supported the last six presidents (that I remember, some more than others). And I agree that we, as born again believers, should not call anyone derogatory names. Even for those who are thrice married, known adulterers, proven liars, bigoted racists who support white supremacists, who brag about sexually assaulting women and paying for sex while his third wife is having his son. So, I support your call to not call names of others.

Jon replied
I am sure we all have a list of sins (forgiven or not) attached to our lives. I'm not willing to make such a list of others because I do not want others to make a list on me. Matthew 7:12. I don't even want to say I'm so glad I am not like other men (Luke 18:9-14).

Gerry replied:
Galatians 6:1 says, "Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently. But watch yourselves, or you also may be tempted." For two reasons I might need to have a list of sins so that I might be careful to not be tempted and I would need to have a list of his sin so that I know how to approach him for restoration. Of course, if the person thinks that there is no sin in his life this approach might be moot.


Ed: Re read your Bible the sins are already there.

Is there an enumerated list someplace, with proof texts? Looks to me like the Bible has a large number of places where there's a margin of error (even if it is itself free of error). I'm particularly interested in the relationship if any between abominations and sins; it's not at all clear to me, especially for the things that abomination for one people group but not for another. Do we acquire the whole set by our ingrafting into Jacob, or do we lose the set like Peter on the rooftop?

Re: Trump - A full term... or not

PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:40 pm
by JE Pettibone
Ed: Note Hauro, I deliberately said nothing of "a list of sins".

Re: Trump - A full term... or not

PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:26 pm
by Haruo
Not sure in what sense "the sins" are "in the Bible". Can you elucidate, Ed?

Re: Trump - A full term... or not

PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:38 pm
by JE Pettibone
Haruo wrote:Not sure in what sense "the sins" are "in the Bible". Can you elucidate, Ed?


ED: With your Knowledge of the text, if you have not found them. I am afraid I can't help. I will pray the Holy Spirit leads you. :brick:

Re: Trump - A full term... or not

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:32 am
by Jon Estes
JE Pettibone wrote:
Haruo wrote:Not sure in what sense "the sins" are "in the Bible". Can you elucidate, Ed?


ED: With your Knowledge of the text, if you have not found them. I am afraid I can't help. I will pray the Holy Spirit leads you. :brick:


Ed - I understood you clearly. I am not sure why Hauro is having difficulty - it is not like him to not understand.

Re: Trump - A full term... or not

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:43 am
by Haruo
I may have to reread the whole thread, as I do not
understand Ed's comment. :)

Re: Trump - A full term... or not

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:56 am
by JE Pettibone
Jon Estes wrote:
JE Pettibone wrote:
Haruo wrote:Not sure in what sense "the sins" are "in the Bible". Can you elucidate, Ed?


ED: With your Knowledge of the text, if you have not found them. I am afraid I can't help. I will pray the Holy Spirit leads you. :brick:


Jon: - I understood you clearly. I am not sure why Hauro is having difficulty - it is not like him to not understand.


Ed: Because Hauro does not interpret scripture the same way. It seems he believes that to vindicate God's own personage would make God less Perfect. I believe that having the only perfect knowledge, God accepts the responsibility of judging, punishing and rewarding, Sometime a thousand or so years from now I may know if I am right or wrong, that is up to God .
Best I can do as an amateur Theologian.