Trump - A full term... or not

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Trump - A full term... or not

Postby Jon Estes » Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:37 am

There is a hope going around from some that Trump will not be a full one term President.

I understand we all have opinions... likes or dislikes of our sitting President but what is it that makes you believe he will not be a full one term President?

My opinion -- he will be a full one term President. I am not sure if he will run a second term but he will lead for a full four years.

I do not buy the line from most I read as they come across as emotional more than logical. They seem to hold to conspiracy theories rather than known facts. They seem to simply hate Trump. What do they call themselves... never-Trumpers?

Adding a second thought to this post ---

I think the worst is yet to come, after four or eight years of Trump. I do not think there will ever be a sitting President again who will not be under investigation and the opposing party doing all they can to discredit and work to impeach. In this same line of thinking, I also think the attacks and means to which the opposition will go will only get worse in their tactics and schemes.

We are leaving my grandchildren a huge moral / political mess.
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Re: Trump - A full term... or not

Postby Sandy » Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:48 am

If you look at the facts, objectively, and away from the political lenses, and there are sources that are reporting this under standards that confirm their credibility, there's more than just the Mueller investigation and the "Russia thing." I might have a few doubts about where that particular investigation was leading, up until they issued the indictments, particularly who they indicted, and the trail that they are clearly travelling with regard to whom they have in the dock. What's known on the outside is incriminating enough. The reaction of the Trump administration to each step the investigation takes, each person who is named, each indictment, each listing of specific meeting times and places with Russians, confirms that there is something he doesn't want known.

We're already at the point where three key Trump campaign officials and administration advisers have been indicted, and given testimony to the investigation. Now, as a result of the Nunes memo, they also have Carter Page, and they have the direct connection to sources other than the dossier, including Papadoupolous and Flynn, that justified the FISA warrants. That's more than they ever had on Nixon. You don't need a news source, conservative or liberal, to find any of this out, just go to the Congressional record and read the transcripts. I'm sure Mueller has more than either intelligence committee does, and if that's the case, and I think it is, Trump is toast. If it happens before November's election, then you'll at least still have a Republican in the White House. If it happens after January of 2019, then its Katy bar the door.

Trump might have a year left. Maybe.
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Re: Trump - A full term... or not

Postby Haruo » Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:28 pm

I agree, Jon, that it is likely that civility in government will not make much of a resurgence in our lifetimes.

I am not at all sure how long Trump will last, but as time goes on I think more and more Republicans in Congress are becoming fed up with his behavior and its effect on their reelectability. And they probably know as well as Sandy does or better that their chances is in 2020 are much better if the crisis comes earlier rather than later. So we'll see.

Not all Republican voters are eager to destroy our fisheries etc.
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Re: Trump - A full term... or not

Postby Jim » Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:00 pm

Actual news organizations have reported extensively the info gathered by congressional committees indicating that the Demo/Clinton/FBI conspiracy (current memos regarding FISA and Hillary's State Department) to ruin Trump both before and after the election will help him, not that impeachment by a Repub House would touch it anyway. The latest communications between the infamous high-up FBI fornicators also indicate that the conspiracy went all the way to Obama, who wanted to “be kept in the loop.” The current democrat election-corruption makes Watergate look like afternoon tea.
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Re: Trump - A full term... or not

Postby Haruo » Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:36 pm

Do you have a link, Jim? What I'm wondering is
So ... did the FBI pass on to the White House what it apparently knew about Porter's behavior with his wives, which the FBI apparently was well aware of prior to his hire date, or did they not?
And if not, why not?
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Re: Trump - A full term... or not

Postby Sandy » Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:17 pm

Most of what Jim posted comes from right wing media sources, and has already been discredited by the facts. It's nothing more than part of the subterfuge that gets shoved out by the Trump administration as a means of distracting from reality. Most of the refutation of it is coming from Republicans, as is the push to keep the investigation moving forward.
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Re: Trump - A full term... or not

Postby Jim » Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:21 pm

Haruo wrote:Do you have a link, Jim? What I'm wondering is
So ... did the FBI pass on to the White House what it apparently knew about Porter's behavior with his wives, which the FBI apparently was well aware of prior to his hire date, or did they not?
And if not, why not?

The old “guilt by association game.” Is that it? Just type trump, comey, mccabe, fbi, clinton servers, Rosenstein and the words memo and fisa/dossier into your browser and sit back for a while. Here's an irreverent piece from Canada: http://canadafreepress.com/article/philandering-fbi-agents-blow-obamas-cover-on-obamagate, but there's a load of material on this scandal. Just seek and ye shall find...if you want to, that is.
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Re: Trump - A full term... or not

Postby Jon Estes » Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:12 am

Sandy wrote:If you look at the facts, objectively, and away from the political lenses, and there are sources that are reporting this under standards that confirm their credibility, there's more than just the Mueller investigation and the "Russia thing." I might have a few doubts about where that particular investigation was leading, up until they issued the indictments, particularly who they indicted, and the trail that they are clearly travelling with regard to whom they have in the dock. What's known on the outside is incriminating enough. The reaction of the Trump administration to each step the investigation takes, each person who is named, each indictment, each listing of specific meeting times and places with Russians, confirms that there is something he doesn't want known.

We're already at the point where three key Trump campaign officials and administration advisers have been indicted, and given testimony to the investigation. Now, as a result of the Nunes memo, they also have Carter Page, and they have the direct connection to sources other than the dossier, including Papadoupolous and Flynn, that justified the FISA warrants. That's more than they ever had on Nixon. You don't need a news source, conservative or liberal, to find any of this out, just go to the Congressional record and read the transcripts. I'm sure Mueller has more than either intelligence committee does, and if that's the case, and I think it is, Trump is toast. If it happens before November's election, then you'll at least still have a Republican in the White House. If it happens after January of 2019, then its Katy bar the door.

Trump might have a year left. Maybe.


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Re: Trump - A full term... or not

Postby Jon Estes » Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:17 am

Sandy wrote:Most of what Jim posted comes from right wing media sources, and has already been discredited by the facts. It's nothing more than part of the subterfuge that gets shoved out by the Trump administration as a means of distracting from reality. Most of the refutation of it is coming from Republicans, as is the push to keep the investigation moving forward.


Are you even wanting to say the left wing media source (MSM) is the "go to" place for political facts? :roll: :roll: :roll:
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Re: Trump - A full term... or not

Postby Dave Roberts » Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:00 am

It's actually fun to see what the BBC and Deutsche Welt Anschaung have to say about the US--they don't have a dog in this fight.
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Re: Trump - A full term... or not

Postby Sandy » Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:39 am

Jon Estes wrote:
Sandy wrote:Most of what Jim posted comes from right wing media sources, and has already been discredited by the facts. It's nothing more than part of the subterfuge that gets shoved out by the Trump administration as a means of distracting from reality. Most of the refutation of it is coming from Republicans, as is the push to keep the investigation moving forward.


Are you even wanting to say the left wing media source (MSM) is the "go to" place for political facts? :roll: :roll: :roll:


Yes. The first thing that is wrong with your statement is the automatic assumption that mainstream media is a "left wing source." Try proving that. Check the facts with an independent source. No one is perfect, of course, but news sources like the Washington Post, New York Times, and the major news networks are far more accurate and far less biased than any conservative source. And if you don't like those names, there are several good mainstream conservative news sources that line up pretty consistently with the Times, Post, NBC, CBS and ABC, like Reuters, Bloomberg, The Wall Street Journal, Yahoo News and USA Today. BTW, I never take anything for granted, and when I watch any news source, I have my computer open and check several sources. The conservatives make that tough, because they never cite references or corroborate sources. Almost all of the others do.

And while there is always the contention that any news source has ways of inserting its bias, it's hard to argue with straight up video of statements made by conservative Republican politicians when it comes to verifying sources and facts that conservatives don't like but are going to have to live with. Start with Trey Gowdy and work your way down the list of Republicans who have affirmed facts that both intel committees have produced, the veracity of the Mueller investigation, and all of those things the buffoon and his minions claim are "fake news." There are over 40 of them now, and the list grows daily.
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Re: Trump - A full term... or not

Postby Jon Estes » Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:54 am

Sandy wrote:
Jon Estes wrote:
Sandy wrote:Most of what Jim posted comes from right wing media sources, and has already been discredited by the facts. It's nothing more than part of the subterfuge that gets shoved out by the Trump administration as a means of distracting from reality. Most of the refutation of it is coming from Republicans, as is the push to keep the investigation moving forward.


Are you even wanting to say the left wing media source (MSM) is the "go to" place for political facts? :roll: :roll: :roll:


Yes. The first thing that is wrong with your statement is the automatic assumption that mainstream media is a "left wing source." Try proving that. Check the facts with an independent source. No one is perfect, of course, but news sources like the Washington Post, New York Times, and the major news networks are far more accurate and far less biased than any conservative source. And if you don't like those names, there are several good mainstream conservative news sources that line up pretty consistently with the Times, Post, NBC, CBS and ABC, like Reuters, Bloomberg, The Wall Street Journal, Yahoo News and USA Today. BTW, I never take anything for granted, and when I watch any news source, I have my computer open and check several sources. The conservatives make that tough, because they never cite references or corroborate sources. Almost all of the others do.

And while there is always the contention that any news source has ways of inserting its bias, it's hard to argue with straight up video of statements made by conservative Republican politicians when it comes to verifying sources and facts that conservatives don't like but are going to have to live with. Start with Trey Gowdy and work your way down the list of Republicans who have affirmed facts that both intel committees have produced, the veracity of the Mueller investigation, and all of those things the buffoon and his minions claim are "fake news." There are over 40 of them now, and the list grows daily.


I don’t mind you holding your opinion but I am asking you to not call the President names. You are above such behavior, please show it.
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Re: Trump - A full term... or not

Postby Sandy » Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:22 am

He's not any president as far as I am concerned. However, at your request, I will refer to him as "Trump."
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Re: Trump - A full term... or not

Postby Jon Estes » Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:07 pm

Sandy wrote:He's not any president as far as I am concerned. However, at your request, I will refer to him as "Trump."


Thank you. It is best for all.
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Re: Trump - A full term... or not

Postby Joseph Patrick » Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:05 pm

Jon Estes wrote:
Sandy wrote:He's not any president as far as I am concerned. However, at your request, I will refer to him as "Trump."


Thank you. It is best for all.


Jon,
While I support the office of president. I have supported the last six presidents (that I remember, some more than others). And I agree that we, as born again believers, should not call anyone derogatory names. Even for those who are thrice married, known adulterers, proven liars, bigoted racists who support white supremacists, who brag about sexually assaulting women and paying for sex while his third wife is having his son. So, I support your call to not call names of others.
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Re: Trump - A full term... or not

Postby William Thornton » Sat Feb 10, 2018 5:52 am

Joseph Patrick wrote:
Jon Estes wrote:
Sandy wrote:He's not any president as far as I am concerned. However, at your request, I will refer to him as "Trump."


Thank you. It is best for all.


Jon,
While I support the office of president. I have supported the last six presidents (that I remember, some more than others). And I agree that we, as born again believers, should not call anyone derogatory names. Even for those who are thrice married, known adulterers, proven liars, bigoted racists who support white supremacists, who brag about sexually assaulting women and paying for sex while his third wife is having his son. So, I support your call to not call names of others.


Yeah, I agree. I never called presidents who were adulterers, who had credible accusations of rape, who were liars, who were corrupt, who supported sleazebag criminals names. Good practice for Christians who discuss politics, I think. Heck, I don't even use one president's middle name because that was prohibited here.
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Re: Trump - A full term... or not

Postby Jim » Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:28 pm

Was that William JEFFERSON or Barack HUSSEIN?
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Re: Trump - A full term... or not

Postby Sandy » Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:08 pm

William Thornton wrote:Yeah, I agree. I never called presidents who were adulterers, who had credible accusations of rape, who were liars, who were corrupt, who supported sleazebag criminals names. Good practice for Christians who discuss politics, I think. Heck, I don't even use one president's middle name because that was prohibited here.


I didn't realize we prohibited the use of the name "John." That could be detrimental to a lot of discussions in some threats....... :lol:

Allusions to Bill Clinton only brings the Christian hypocrisy regarding Trump into even sharper focus, and make the whole Christian right look pathetic.
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Re: Trump - A full term... or not

Postby Tim Bonney » Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:24 pm

There is a good chance Trump will go full term because it is, rightfully, hard to remove an elected President. But his Presidency is different than any other in our history. His election shows a break down of our two party system. His election also shows a drastic failure of Evangelicalism to prioritize theology over politics. Right now theology is being trumped (no pun intended) by politics.
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Re: Trump - A full term... or not

Postby Jon Estes » Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:08 pm

Joseph Patrick wrote:
Jon Estes wrote:
Sandy wrote:He's not any president as far as I am concerned. However, at your request, I will refer to him as "Trump."


Thank you. It is best for all.


Jon,
While I support the office of president. I have supported the last six presidents (that I remember, some more than others). And I agree that we, as born again believers, should not call anyone derogatory names. Even for those who are thrice married, known adulterers, proven liars, bigoted racists who support white supremacists, who brag about sexually assaulting women and paying for sex while his third wife is having his son. So, I support your call to not call names of others.


I am sure we all have a list of sins (forgiven or not) attached to our lives. I'm not willing to make such a list of others because I do not want others to make a list on me. Matthew 7:12. I don't even want to say I'm so glad I am not like other men (Luke 18:9-14).
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Re: Trump - A full term... or not

Postby Jon Estes » Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:11 pm

Tim Bonney wrote:There is a good chance Trump will go full term because it is, rightfully, hard to remove an elected President. But his Presidency is different than any other in our history. His election shows a break down of our two party system. His election also shows a drastic failure of Evangelicalism to prioritize theology over politics. Right now theology is being trumped (no pun intended) by politics.


I worship weekly with people from 40+ different nations. We do church and life differently. I have learned to appreciate that different does not necessarily mean wrong... it is just different. We need something different in DC, big government is out of hand. Trump is doing some good things and some things that make me cringe.
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Re: Trump - A full term... or not

Postby William Thornton » Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:02 am

Tim Bonney wrote:There is a good chance Trump will go full term because it is, rightfully, hard to remove an elected President. But his Presidency is different than any other in our history. His election shows a break down of our two party system. His election also shows a drastic failure of Evangelicalism to prioritize theology over politics. Right now theology is being trumped (no pun intended) by politics.


How was it a breakdown of the two party system?
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Re: Trump - A full term... or not

Postby Haruo » Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:00 pm

Dave Roberts wrote:It's actually fun to see what the BBC and Deutsche Welt Anschaung have to say about the US--they don't have a dog in this fight.

I would say, give us links!

Personally, I almost never "read the news" per se. Once or twice a day I skim the headlines at Google News, and if I see something I think is very interesting or very incomprehensible, I go look at it. But Google News is (at least as their algorithms feed stuff to me) pretty USAocentric. They feed me a little BBC, Reuters, AFP, occasionally Al-Jazeera, almost never the German stuff unless it's about Germany. I wouldn't mind at all being tipped off to an occasional foreign mainstream story that you find interesting, Dave. I get some stuff from the Esperanto news media, but it's generally not "mainstream".
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Re: Trump - A full term... or not

Postby Sandy » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:41 pm

Tim Bonney wrote:There is a good chance Trump will go full term because it is, rightfully, hard to remove an elected President. But his Presidency is different than any other in our history. His election shows a break down of our two party system. His election also shows a drastic failure of Evangelicalism to prioritize theology over politics. Right now theology is being trumped (no pun intended) by politics.


His election shows the frightening ability of a foreign power to interfere and influence the outcome. It shows what a disaster can occur when single issues become the driving force behind the political agenda of a religious group.
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Re: Trump - A full term... or not

Postby Haruo » Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:09 pm

Part of the problem may be that so much of the Religious Right is English-speaking, and thus has an innate (or at least early-childhood-origin) tendency to confuse what is right with what is right.
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