Congress should pass a law to examine...

The place to discuss politics and policy issues that are not directly related to matters of faith.

Moderator: Jon Estes

Congress should pass a law to examine...

Postby Sandy » Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:42 am

The mental stability of anyone who wants to serve in the government, especially the President.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... spartandhp

So here's a guy that the votes in Arizona soundly rejected (he lost his sheriff re-election by 13%) running for the senate and still trying to make the point that President Obama's birth certificate was a fake.

What a fine example of the level of intelligence, integrity and mentality of the 21st century Republican Party. Wonder if you can still run for the senate from a padded cell?
Sandy
Sandy
 
Posts: 8743
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 4:10 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Congress should pass a law to examine...

Postby KeithE » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:20 am

... and presidential candidates should have a polygraph lie detector test like many high level security clearances demand. And I'd add periodic lie detector tests maybe each year.
Informed by Data.
Driven by the SPIRIT and JESUS’s Example.
Promoting the Kingdom of GOD on Earth.
http://www.weatherly.org/discoverycenter
User avatar
KeithE
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8796
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 8:02 pm
Location: Huntsville, AL

Re: Congress should pass a law to examine...

Postby Tim Bonney » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:48 am

It wouldn't bother me if we had such a law. All UMC pastors are required to have a Psychological Evaluation as part of our candidacy for ordination process and I believe the last ABC/USA region I served in expected something like that as well.

I wonder if businesses are also doing evaluations of employees for some positions? They often due drug testing and background checks.

Frankly if someone can't pass a background check, why would we want them to be able to run for office?
Tim Bonney

First UMC of Indianola, Iowa - http://indfumc.org
My Blog - http://timbonney.com
User avatar
Tim Bonney
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5883
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:17 am
Location: Indianola, Iowa

Re: Congress should pass a law to examine...

Postby Jim » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:55 am

KeithE wrote:... and presidential candidates should have a polygraph lie detector test like many high level security clearances demand. And I'd add periodic lie detector tests maybe each year.

Perhaps you will name the positions for which lie-detector tests are required. Maybe FBI director (egad...with Comey as subject) or state secretary (with Hillary as subject) or even yourself. And, of course, there's Bubba defining what is is.
Jim
 
Posts: 3770
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2006 2:44 pm
Location: Lexington, Ky.

Re: Congress should pass a law to examine...

Postby JE Pettibone » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:26 am

Tim Bonney wrote:It wouldn't bother me if we had such a law. All UMC pastors are required to have a Psychological Evaluation as part of our candidacy for ordination process and I believe the last ABC/USA region I served in expected something like that as well.

I wonder if businesses are also doing evaluations of employees for some positions? They often due drug testing and background checks.

Frankly if someone can't pass a background check, why would we want them to be able to run for office?


Ed: Tim I believe you will find little or no similarity in "Lie detector test" and the MMPI which Most ABC regions, including I believe Indiana, employ when certifying pastors. Yes, you will find employers use a wide variety of standardized instruments, in evaluating prospective employees.

Lie detectors test are inadmissible in many court jurisdictions.
Last edited by JE Pettibone on Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
JE Pettibone
 
Posts: 516
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2016 10:48 am

Re: Congress should pass a law to examine...

Postby Tim Bonney » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:36 am

JE Pettibone wrote:
Ed: Tim I believe you will find little or no similarity in "Lie detector test" and the MMPI which Most ABC regions including I believe Indiana employ when certifying pastors.

Also The reliability of Lie detector test is quite questionable. See https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/Lie detector


Agreed Ed. I was keying off of the concern for mentally stable people running government. I have taken the MMPI more than once. I've never had a lie detector test, but I'm aware it lacks accuracy.

You probably know a bit about this because of your background. But I understand it is hard to fool the MMPI because it asks questions in such way as to test how consistent you are with your answers.
Tim Bonney

First UMC of Indianola, Iowa - http://indfumc.org
My Blog - http://timbonney.com
User avatar
Tim Bonney
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5883
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:17 am
Location: Indianola, Iowa

Re: Congress should pass a law to examine...

Postby KeithE » Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:01 pm

Jim wrote:
KeithE wrote:... and presidential candidates should have a polygraph lie detector test like many high level security clearances demand. And I'd add periodic lie detector tests maybe each year.

Perhaps you will name the positions for which lie-detector tests are required. Maybe FBI director (egad...with Comey as subject) or state secretary (with Hillary as subject) or even yourself. And, of course, there's Bubba defining what is is.

Seems like Jim only wants Dems or anti-Trump people tested. No I was suggesting anyone running for President take the test. And yes I know lie detector tests are not 100% correct.
Informed by Data.
Driven by the SPIRIT and JESUS’s Example.
Promoting the Kingdom of GOD on Earth.
http://www.weatherly.org/discoverycenter
User avatar
KeithE
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8796
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 8:02 pm
Location: Huntsville, AL

Re: Congress should pass a law to examine...

Postby Tim Bonney » Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:06 pm

While I think a psych evaluation could be good, I take Ed's caution well. I remember now a lawyer telling me that he would never advise any client to take a lie detector test because their accuracy is so poor and so related to who administers it that you are putting your life in the hands of something that is far less than scientific.
Tim Bonney

First UMC of Indianola, Iowa - http://indfumc.org
My Blog - http://timbonney.com
User avatar
Tim Bonney
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5883
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:17 am
Location: Indianola, Iowa

Re: Congress should pass a law to examine...

Postby KeithE » Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:14 pm

Tim Bonney wrote:It wouldn't bother me if we had such a law. All UMC pastors are required to have a Psychological Evaluation as part of our candidacy for ordination process and I believe the last ABC/USA region I served in expected something like that as well.

I wonder if businesses are also doing evaluations of employees for some positions? They often due drug testing and background checks.

Frankly if someone can't pass a background check, why would we want them to be able to run for office?

Agree entirely.

Yes many corporations vet people applying fro CEO’s, etc. One lady I know from bridge had a business to specifically vet the CIOs (Chief Information Officers) before hiring to make sure they were not into industrial espionage. I'll ask her today what specific checks they did.

And I say a candidate for any high political office should be required to submit their tax returns before being put on the ballot. Hindsight.
Informed by Data.
Driven by the SPIRIT and JESUS’s Example.
Promoting the Kingdom of GOD on Earth.
http://www.weatherly.org/discoverycenter
User avatar
KeithE
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8796
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 8:02 pm
Location: Huntsville, AL

Re: Congress should pass a law to examine...

Postby Tim Bonney » Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:29 pm

KeithE wrote:And I say a candidate for any high political office should be required to submit their tax returns before being put on the ballot. Hindsight.


I agree on the tax return too. How else can you determine serious financial conflicts of interest otherwise?
Tim Bonney

First UMC of Indianola, Iowa - http://indfumc.org
My Blog - http://timbonney.com
User avatar
Tim Bonney
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5883
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:17 am
Location: Indianola, Iowa

Re: Congress should pass a law to examine...

Postby KeithE » Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:53 pm

Tim Bonney wrote:While I think a psych evaluation could be good, I take Ed's caution well. I remember now a lawyer telling me that he would never advise any client to take a lie detector test because their accuracy is so poor and so related to who administers it that you are putting your life in the hands of something that is far less than scientific.

OTOH, those considering running for office, are not putting their current occupation at risk by 1) psychological testing, 2) lie detector tests, 3) criminal records check or 4) tax return scrutiny. They might even learn something about themselves. Surely we can have the most professional testers/reviewers we have for a Presidential election and as professionals they will keep the results confidential. Do these tests as a prerequisite to candidacy. Media can continue to scrutinized the candidates after that - hopefully more related to political issues/plans.

And I agree lie detector tests and psychological testing are not perfect. Imo, the risk of having a bad, lie-prone president is larger than the risk of eliminating an otherwise good candidate and it certainly affects more people.
Informed by Data.
Driven by the SPIRIT and JESUS’s Example.
Promoting the Kingdom of GOD on Earth.
http://www.weatherly.org/discoverycenter
User avatar
KeithE
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8796
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 8:02 pm
Location: Huntsville, AL

Re: Congress should pass a law to examine...

Postby Tim Bonney » Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:00 pm

Of course, the odds that congress would pass such a bill is about zero. Not to say that politicians lie but.....
Tim Bonney

First UMC of Indianola, Iowa - http://indfumc.org
My Blog - http://timbonney.com
User avatar
Tim Bonney
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5883
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:17 am
Location: Indianola, Iowa

Re: Congress should pass a law to examine...

Postby William Thornton » Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:36 pm

Ummm, sounds like more post-election sour grapes. Maybe we could test you guys for some psychological trauma. Maybe we should make voters pass a test.

How much hard science is in a psych test anyway? How much hard science is even in a DSM diagnosis?

I'd favor a tinfoil hat test, though. :roll:
My stray thoughts on SBC stuff may be found at my blog, SBC Plodder
User avatar
William Thornton
Site Admin
 
Posts: 12025
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Atlanta

Re: Congress should pass a law to examine...

Postby Tim Bonney » Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:53 pm

William Thornton wrote:Ummm, sounds like more post-election sour grapes. Maybe we could test you guys for some psychological trauma. Maybe we should make voters pass a test.

How much hard science is in a psych test anyway? How much hard science is even in a DSM diagnosis?

I'd favor a tinfoil hat test, though. :roll:


The psychological testing has a lot of science behind it. The MMPI has been used for years. The first time I took a version of that test was at Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary as part of entrance evaluation. It isn’t some new thing, or some liberal thing. It indeed does help weed out those with serious mental illness and also point to issues a person may have they might want to address when entering ministry.

As to sour grapes. Not so much sour grapes as abject fear that a nut job may have made it to the White House and no one stopped him and there is not much of any mechanism to deal with it. Who the heck says, “I’m a stable genius?” Pretty much not people who are stable or people who are geniuses.

If the GOP could replace Trump with another Republican, even Pence, I’d be far less nervous. I’d take GW Bush back in a heartbeat if someone could magically make Trump disappear and bring Bush back. This isn’t partisan. Trump isn’t a Republican. He is an opportunistic film flam man who was a Dem before he was in the GOP.
Tim Bonney

First UMC of Indianola, Iowa - http://indfumc.org
My Blog - http://timbonney.com
User avatar
Tim Bonney
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5883
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:17 am
Location: Indianola, Iowa

Re: Congress should pass a law to examine...

Postby Jim » Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:16 pm

KeithE wrote: Surely we can have the most professional testers/reviewers we have for a Presidential election and as professionals they will keep the results confidential.

Surely...SURELY you aren't that naïve!
Jim
 
Posts: 3770
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2006 2:44 pm
Location: Lexington, Ky.

Re: Congress should pass a law to examine...

Postby Rvaughn » Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:54 pm

Perhaps we should just continue to let the voters decide, unless we want to test them for mental stability, too.
User avatar
Rvaughn
 
Posts: 816
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 4:54 pm
Location: East Texas

Re: Congress should pass a law to examine...

Postby Tim Bonney » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:34 pm

Rvaughn wrote:Perhaps we should just continue to let the voters decide, unless we want to test them for mental stability, too.


I agree, lets actually change our laws to let the voters decide. A start would be to elect the President by the actual vote count rather than the undemocratic Electoral College.
Tim Bonney

First UMC of Indianola, Iowa - http://indfumc.org
My Blog - http://timbonney.com
User avatar
Tim Bonney
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5883
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:17 am
Location: Indianola, Iowa

Re: Congress should pass a law to examine...

Postby Rvaughn » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:03 pm

The voters do decide, in exactly the manner provided for in the Constitution, whether or not one likes the Electoral College. But popular vote by voters previously tested for mental stability might not be that bad a thing. :D
User avatar
Rvaughn
 
Posts: 816
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 4:54 pm
Location: East Texas

Re: Congress should pass a law to examine...

Postby Tim Bonney » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:20 pm

Rvaughn wrote:The voters do decide, in exactly the manner provided for in the Constitution, whether or not one likes the Electoral College. But popular vote by voters previously tested for mental stability might not be that bad a thing. :D


I might vote for that too, assuming I also pass the psych evaluation again. :D
Tim Bonney

First UMC of Indianola, Iowa - http://indfumc.org
My Blog - http://timbonney.com
User avatar
Tim Bonney
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5883
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:17 am
Location: Indianola, Iowa

Re: Congress should pass a law to examine...

Postby Rvaughn » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:21 pm

Wait...
We might need to rethink this! :o
User avatar
Rvaughn
 
Posts: 816
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 4:54 pm
Location: East Texas

Re: Congress should pass a law to examine...

Postby Tim Bonney » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:39 pm

Rvaughn wrote:Wait...
We might need to rethink this! :o


:lol:
Tim Bonney

First UMC of Indianola, Iowa - http://indfumc.org
My Blog - http://timbonney.com
User avatar
Tim Bonney
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5883
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:17 am
Location: Indianola, Iowa

Re: Congress should pass a law to examine...

Postby Jim » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:08 am

Why not more liberal cant on Trump's insanity and racism, as well as being as dumb as a gourd? After all, he is crazy, isn't he? CNN thinks he's a stupid wing-nut, as well as MSNBC, so could Chris Matthews of the Obama-incited trembling leg syndrome be wrong. The highest-profile loudmouth currently is Senator Durbin describing Trump's racism. Durbin is the guy who compared American GIs to Stalin's gulag gangs:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/21/AR2005062101654.html; Or, what about Hillary's basket of deplorables (white folks, too): http://time.com/4486502/hillary-clinton-basket-of-deplorables-transcript/; or Obama's reference to policemen (actually a white policeman) as acting stupidly:http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/22/harvard.gates.interview/; or Biden's description of a black man actually being clean: http://www.nbcnews.com/id/16911044/ns/nbc_nightly_news_with_brian_williams/t/sen-biden-apologizes-remarks-obama/#.WloA3uSWx9Y.
Jim
 
Posts: 3770
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2006 2:44 pm
Location: Lexington, Ky.

Re: Congress should pass a law to examine...

Postby Dave Roberts » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:28 am

Interesting, to obtain certification as a 911-communications officer in Virginia, I had to have a psych evaluation--3 hours of testing and interviewing with a clinical psychologist. Funny that we don't require that for high offices like Congress, SCOTUS, and the Supreme Court, but the 911 person answering your phone had to have it.
"God will never be less than He is and does not need to be more" (John Koessler)

My blog: http://emporiadave.wordpress.com/
User avatar
Dave Roberts
Site Admin
 
Posts: 7220
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 1:01 pm
Location: Southside, VA

Re: Congress should pass a law to examine...

Postby Tim Bonney » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:59 am

Dave Roberts wrote:Interesting, to obtain certification as a 911-communications officer in Virginia, I had to have a psych evaluation--3 hours of testing and interviewing with a clinical psychologist. Funny that we don't require that for high offices like Congress, SCOTUS, and the Supreme Court, but the 911 person answering your phone had to have it.


In the past I think the parties did a better job of weeding out totally unqualified candidates. But the situation has changed. The GOP is so afraid of losing power that many in congress won’t say what they all know, that Trump isn’t fit for office.

This weekend we find out that the Trump team paid $130,000 to a porn star to keep her silent about a possible affair. The release of the information would have come out just before the election.

The pattern should be clear. A man who said that there were “good people on both sides” in a Nazi rally, who during his campaign said horrible things about Hispanics, and now thinks that Africans are from sh*thole nations, is clearly a racist and a bigot who, obviously from his former association with Steve Bannon, has Nationalist leanings himself.

I said some years ago that many Evanglicals would vote for the Devil himself if the Devil would promise to put conservative justices in the Supreme Court. I’m sorry to be this close to being right.
Tim Bonney

First UMC of Indianola, Iowa - http://indfumc.org
My Blog - http://timbonney.com
User avatar
Tim Bonney
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5883
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:17 am
Location: Indianola, Iowa

Re: Congress should pass a law to examine...

Postby Jim » Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:02 pm

Rvaughn wrote:Perhaps we should just continue to let the voters decide, unless we want to test them for mental stability, too.

You obviously have pointed to a perfect solution to the “crazy” problem. Every voter should pass at least the Rorschach test before being allowed to register. How better to guard against a “crazy” being elected? Or, there's the Pavlov “dog test” to determine if people are acting instinctively or intelligently when they vote. Candidates are always up-to-date on this element of mental/psychological acuity by offering everything from two chickens in every pot to two Cadillacs in every garage. Why not guard against irresponsible voting by demanding that voters be registered only after passing the ACT test taken by high-school juniors? All that's needed for a California driver-license seems to be a warm forehead, never mind what's behind it...or not. And what about mind-health? Senator Feinstein did a naughty thing about the infamous dossier – http://dailycaller.com/2018/01/10/dianne-feinstein-says-a-bad-cold-may-have-slowed-down-her-mental-faculties/– at least partly because illness had informed her judgment. So...should a doctor's certificate be submitted and regularly updated upon registration or arrival at the voting booth and at the swearing-in time for a successful candidate? CNN and MSNBC and certainly Dan Rather or the oracular Maddow (exposed Trump's 2005 1040) are being hypocritical if they accuse Trump of being nuts if they don't first prove their own IQ to be above 50 and their immunity to acting instinctively (madness accruing to last election and perhaps baying at the moon occasionally) when they share their wisdom.
Jim
 
Posts: 3770
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2006 2:44 pm
Location: Lexington, Ky.

Next

Return to Politics and Public Policy Issues

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest