Democratic senator Franken resigns

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Re: Democratic senator Franken resigns

Postby Rvaughn » Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:22 am

Haruo wrote:I think the governor of Minnesota is a Democrat, which negates the importance of countering Moore with Franken.
You're right. In Minnesota, a Democratic Governor will appoint someone to fill out Franken's term, which means Democrats lose nothing by this political calculation, and also that there seems little to no reason for a faux-resignation from Franken. Probably just conspiracy theorists looking for something to talk about.
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Re: Democratic senator Franken resigns

Postby Haruo » Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:58 am

My guess is Franken was genuinely blindsided by all this (Newt Gingrich may be right on this one) and doesn't exactly know what to do or how long to take to do it.
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Re: Democratic senator Franken resigns

Postby Jon Estes » Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:05 pm

Sandy wrote:
Rvaughn wrote:
Sandy wrote:That dog ain't a gonna hunt, as they'd say in Alabama, where the Republicans are going ahead and supporting a child molesting piece of trash running for the senate. By comparison, what they are doing is far worse, but it is even more deplorable that the sitting President, a member of their party, actually sexually assaulted women and bragged about doing it, but no Republicans are putting pressure on him to resign. Franken is resigning, and the Democrats are getting credit for taking the high ground here, because the Republicans still have Trump and Moore.
Of course it will hunt. Already is. Who doesn't believe that some Democratic politicians aren't doing what they're doing just so they can get credit for taking the moral high ground? You, I suppose. Of course you give Paul Ryan no credit for asking Trent Franks of Arizona to step down, or perhaps helping hasten Republican Representative Tim Murphy move on down the road. Who knows why he hasn't asked (or pressured) Republican Texas Representative Blake Farenthold to resign (seems that would be a expectation of a Republican replacement).

I think you're trying to make too much sense out of it apart from politics. In a crowd that takes test votes so some of them can decide which way to vote when the real vote comes down, don't be too surprised that they do have an eye out for political cost and political benefit. (And yes that is both sides, even if you can't bring yourself to admit it.)


Franks stepped down on his own, as did Murphy, whom I have met. The problems Republicans have is Moore and Trump. The Democrats will have the moral high ground as long as the blatant and incredible hypocrisy regarding those two keeps going. Franks, Murphy, Joe Barton, those are all congressmen who stepped down on their own rather than face their consistuency. They are not equal to Moore orTrump, where the Republican hypocrisy is blatant and glaring. Sorry, not buying it.

[i]No moral high ground until books are open on who paid who for what and a cleaning deep into both chambers. The Dems have to stand tall and say character matters, since they didn’t believe it in Clinton’s term. They need to let the full extent of the law loose on the Clintons... moral him and the email and Benghazi mess her.

No pick and choose what high ground - clean slate... seek forgiveness... set things up that it will never happen again. Until then... it’s politics.
[/i]
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Re: Democratic senator Franken resigns

Postby Sandy » Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:26 pm

Jon Estes wrote:]No moral high ground until books are open on who paid who for what and a cleaning deep into both chambers. The Dems have to stand tall and say character matters, since they didn’t believe it in Clinton’s term. They need to let the full extent of the law loose on the Clintons... moral him and the email and Benghazi mess her.

No pick and choose what high ground - clean slate... seek forgiveness... set things up that it will never happen again. Until then... it’s politics


It was the Christian right who pushed the issue of candidate character, especially during the Clinton years. Since they really hadn't been all that well organized prior to that, they could get away with not really having to acknowledge Nixon. Evangelical support for Trump, and now for Roy Moore is evidence of a complete abandonment of principle and morals for the sake of political expediency. The Democrats don't have a core constituency that has taken such a hardline stance, and then backed away from it. It's not so much that they sought the moral high ground here, but that it simply fell into their hands as their political opposition completely abandoned the principles they held and let things happen, instead of showing some moral backbone when they had the chance. You can call it politics, or think what you like, but it is quite clear that when it comes to public opinion, the Democrats have been given the high road, and the Republicans, because of the Religious Right, look like hypocrites.

The Republicans did let the full extent of the law loose on the Clintons. Two investigations which spent ten times what the Mueller commission has spent so far resulted in the Gowdy investigation of Benghazi producing evidence which exonerated her, and you can read the whole FBI report and resulting committee investigation on her emails, which also exonerated her. Newt Gingrich botched the investigation into Bill's activities when he tried to manipulate it to feather his own political nest instead of waiting on the facts to come out. There's no where to go there. They will have their well deserved reputation as hypocrites until they get some backbone with the orange headed buffoon in the white house, and the child molester senate candidate in Alabama.
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Re: Democratic senator Franken resigns

Postby Jon Estes » Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:12 am

Sandy wrote:
Jon Estes wrote:]No moral high ground until books are open on who paid who for what and a cleaning deep into both chambers. The Dems have to stand tall and say character matters, since they didn’t believe it in Clinton’s term. They need to let the full extent of the law loose on the Clintons... moral him and the email and Benghazi mess her.

No pick and choose what high ground - clean slate... seek forgiveness... set things up that it will never happen again. Until then... it’s politics


It was the Christian right who pushed the issue of candidate character, especially during the Clinton years. Since they really hadn't been all that well organized prior to that, they could get away with not really having to acknowledge Nixon. Evangelical support for Trump, and now for Roy Moore is evidence of a complete abandonment of principle and morals for the sake of political expediency. The Democrats don't have a core constituency that has taken such a hardline stance, and then backed away from it. It's not so much that they sought the moral high ground here, but that it simply fell into their hands as their political opposition completely abandoned the principles they held and let things happen, instead of showing some moral backbone when they had the chance. You can call it politics, or think what you like, but it is quite clear that when it comes to public opinion, the Democrats have been given the high road, and the Republicans, because of the Religious Right, look like hypocrites.

The Republicans did let the full extent of the law loose on the Clintons. Two investigations which spent ten times what the Mueller commission has spent so far resulted in the Gowdy investigation of Benghazi producing evidence which exonerated her, and you can read the whole FBI report and resulting committee investigation on her emails, which also exonerated her. Newt Gingrich botched the investigation into Bill's activities when he tried to manipulate it to feather his own political nest instead of waiting on the facts to come out. There's no where to go there. They will have their well deserved reputation as hypocrites until they get some backbone with the orange headed buffoon in the white house, and the child molester senate candidate in Alabama.


It matters not who started it in context with my comment. What I said goes to both chambers and both parties. The reference to any Democrat was only because someone was saying the Dems had the moral high road.
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Re: Democratic senator Franken resigns

Postby Sandy » Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:21 pm

The Democrats have the moral high road, given to them because the Republicans have defaulted and the perception, whether you see it or not, is that they are policing their house, while the Republicans aren't. Years ago is off the table. The Christian right has abandoned the position that character matters, in favor of single-issue political positions, and are relying on worldly power to make their position, rather than on spiritual strength. The evidence of that is clear, that can't be denied, because some of their leadership has articulated it You can add in the racial overtones they've brought in, which is why many evangelical African Americans and Latinos are either silent, or openly supporting the other side.
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Re: Democratic senator Franken resigns

Postby Jon Estes » Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:10 pm

Sandy wrote:The Democrats have the moral high road, given to them because the Republicans have defaulted and the perception, whether you see it or not, is that they are policing their house, while the Republicans aren't. Years ago is off the table. The Christian right has abandoned the position that character matters, in favor of single-issue political positions, and are relying on worldly power to make their position, rather than on spiritual strength. The evidence of that is clear, that can't be denied, because some of their leadership has articulated it You can add in the racial overtones they've brought in, which is why many evangelical African Americans and Latinos are either silent, or openly supporting the other side.


Now that's interesting. 40-year-old accusations is on the table for you to make your position.

Now don't go and say I support RM. I do not. He needs to drop out now.

I guess 13 months ago is off the table when your abusive to women candidate did not win.


Emotionally abusive
Intellectually abusive
Gender smear abusive

I guess since it wasn't sexual, it was moral.

If you voted for Bernie - he has a moral issue also. Those who read Hustler might not think so. Google a few things - it is sick.
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Re: Democratic senator Franken resigns

Postby Dave Roberts » Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:57 pm

Jon, I think we agree on something--it's time to get rid of the abusive figures in Washington starting in the administration and the Congress and going from there. Might be a worthy revolution.
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Re: Democratic senator Franken resigns

Postby Sandy » Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:22 pm

Jon Estes wrote:Now that's interesting. 40-year-old accusations is on the table for you to make your position.


The Moore issue never surfaced until now. It is current. I'm not making "my" position, I'm pointing out what public opinion is doing. I agree, he should withdraw. Franken should have done exactly as he did, and announce his resignation. Moore should step out. So should Trump. So should anyone serving in public office who has crossed the line of aggressive harassment and assault of women.
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