Trump recognizes Jerusalem as Israel's capital

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Trump recognizes Jerusalem as Israel's capital

Postby Rvaughn » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:09 pm

Trump recognizes Jerusalem as Israel's capital in historic move
"My announcement today marks the beginning of a new approach to conflict between Israel and the Palestinians."
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Re: Trump recognizes Jerusalem as Israel's capital

Postby Tim Bonney » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:40 am

Rvaughn wrote:Trump recognizes Jerusalem as Israel's capital in historic move
"My announcement today marks the beginning of a new approach to conflict between Israel and the Palestinians."


New approach, piss nearly everyone off in the Middle East. This is just a bad idea.
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Re: Trump recognizes Jerusalem as Israel's capital

Postby Jim » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:39 pm

Having the U.S. embassy in Tel Aviv is the same as Israel having its embassy in New York City or Philadelphia or Dogpatch. The capital of Israel IS Jerusalem and has been for decades, and Congress passed legislation in 1995 mandating the move of the embassy to Jerusalem. The prexys since then have refused to do it, citing the old saw about security or war or whatever. Trump is simply enforcing that law, also just plain common sense. There is no such thing as a country of Palestine, so the Palestinians and their organizations have no government in order to have an embassy anywhere. The U.S. already has a lease on a plot of land for the embassy (secured in 1989).
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Re: Trump recognizes Jerusalem as Israel's capital

Postby Tim Bonney » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:04 pm

The last thing Jim that this is is "common sense." That is why GOP and DNC Presidents have found security reasons not to do this. This isn't a partisan issue.
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Re: Trump recognizes Jerusalem as Israel's capital

Postby Jim » Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:12 pm

Tim Bonney wrote:The last thing Jim that this is is "common sense." That is why GOP and DNC Presidents have found security reasons not to do this. This isn't a partisan issue.

In appropriate clerical language, at least presumably, you awarded me the beloved chinmoku a long while back at about the same time that one of your clerical colleagues reckoned that I have the mind of a mule with ill-fitting blinders, so I have honored that chinmoku by never responding to your posts. You need to do the same with respect to mine as you intended in “flowery” language. Of course, I'm still laughing but implore all others to cut me some slack account any adverse brain activity that might have occurred in my 87+ years of what the aging process declares as fair game.

For all others in considering the situation in the Middle East, especially, and Jerusalem and environs, in particular, here is a Christmas Carol as a sort of update: http://www.clarkscorner.org/hymn120.pdf. Feel free to traumatize your choir/congregation by copying it and lashing the members with it.
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Re: Trump recognizes Jerusalem as Israel's capital

Postby Haruo » Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:17 am

Interested to hear Jon Estes on this one.
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Re: Trump recognizes Jerusalem as Israel's capital

Postby Sandy » Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:07 am

Jim wrote:There is no such thing as a country of Palestine, so the Palestinians and their organizations have no government in order to have an embassy anywhere.


The Palestinian National Authority, established following the 1994 Israeli-Palestinian agreement, is the legal government of the Gaza Strip, and of Areas A and B of the West Bank. It is a national government made up of Palestinians, who are culturally and ethnically distinguishable from their Arab neighbors. They see East Jerusalem as occupied territory, rather than a political unit within the state of Israel. Since few countries recognize this, most embassies are still in Tel Aviv. Interestingly enough, most Israeli government functions and offices are still there, too.

I don't see any Biblical reason for Jerusalem to be the capital. God doesn't run a separate covenant for Israel from the one he made through Jesus. We are all heirs to the promises of Abraham, and since most Jews today don't believe in Christ, they're not in a covenant relationship with God. The Israel that exists today is a secular, political state, not a covenant-based theocracy.
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Re: Trump recognizes Jerusalem as Israel's capital

Postby Haruo » Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:13 am

Sandy wrote: The Israel that exists today is a secular, political state, not a covenant-based theocracy.

Reminiscent somehow of Alabama.
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Re: Trump recognizes Jerusalem as Israel's capital

Postby Jon Estes » Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:00 pm

Haruo wrote:Interested to hear Jon Estes on this one.


I have no problem with it. This was the direction the USA was going or had gone long before Trump.

Trump put it in action. Past leaders just talked.

Those in ME shouldn’t care and shouldn’t be surprised.
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Re: Trump recognizes Jerusalem as Israel's capital

Postby Jim » Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:05 pm

Jordan took the West Bank as one result of the Arab-Israeli War in 1948. Israel took the West Bank in 1967 (six-day war). Jordan officially gave up sovereignty of the West Bank in 1988. The population of the West Bank is about 2.7 million and the Palestinians living there are the lucky ones compared to Gaza and the rest of Palestine. The UN has never accepted Gaza or Palestine as a nation so any illusion of them as countries is delusion.
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Re: Trump recognizes Jerusalem as Israel's capital

Postby Sandy » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:14 pm

The UN General Assembly granted Palestine status as an "entity" in 2012, which is official recognition of its status as a nation, a move approved by more countries than the recognition of Israel was. They also have diplomatic recognition and relations with about 80% of the countries in the world. The Arabic population of Palestine is historically, culturally and politically distinct from its neighbors. Degrading their nationality and their political status is a tactic aimed at keeping them scattered and disunited under Israeli occupation for the purpose of keeping political control, but it doesn't make them any less than any other people, nor does it deprive them of basic human rights.

It's a long discussion, but I don't see any Biblical entitlement for the secular, political state of Israel that exists today to have their "capital" city in Jerusalem, nor a reason for the current native Palestinian population not to have theirs there. The Trump announcement and the US policy only precipitate violence, and they serve no other purpose.
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