Fox buddy Killian and Roy Moore

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Fox buddy Killian and Roy Moore

Postby William Thornton » Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:16 am

Quote from John Killian, former Alabama Baptist Conv president and pal of Fox.

He has denied it and I take him at his word," said the Rev. John Killian, director of the Fayette County Baptist Association, who hosted Moore speaking twice when he was pastor of Maytown Baptist Church. "I believe him. That's not the way he's lived his life for the last 25 years. It's been reputable and respectable. He's a godly man, a brilliant man. I know Roy Moore. He has a great relationship with (his wife) Kayla. That's not the guy that's (being portrayed) out there now. I believe he's a good man. I don't believe the allegations have been proven. When a brother in Christ speaks, you give him the benefit of the doubt."


Fox, your buddy needs to get his mind right. Perhaps you can help.

This call for proof is a dodge. What would prove any one of the allegations besides a confession by the alleged perp? There's no witnesses, no security cam footage or the like.What we have are multiple accusers and numerous people who were aware that Moore liked teenaged girls when he was in his early 30s. Places and dates match.

I'm with Killian in his comment that this isn't the Roy Moore of the past 25 years, loving husband, and all that. But on giving benefit of the doubt, there's not much doubt left to give. I would be with anyone who maintains that christians can repent, change, and grow in grace and ought not to be judged by their behavior of 40 years ago. But Moore, so far as I'm aware, have never said his behavior in the past was sinful. It would be political suicide to admit to any of the accusations at this stage.

If you want to see a display of the moral bankruptcy of Alabama Baptists, here is the place.

If the church lives by politics...it dies by politics. I have never had much appreciation for RM but am saddened by what I see and hear from my Alabama Baptist colleagues.
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Re: Fox buddy Killian and Roy Moore

Postby Dave Roberts » Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:24 am

William, I join you in sadness that there is no confession or repentance. The actions are a long time ago, but denying that repentance is necessary for those who lived an apparently good life for the past twenty-five years is clearly a works salvation. People might be much more forgiving if he told the truth though I'm sure he would lose the election and the GOP would be one vote short in the Senate. This is all about having a majority, no matter how bad the character is who fills the seat. How sad for Baptists and other evangelicals to stoop this far.
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Re: Fox buddy Killian and Roy Moore

Postby Jon Estes » Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:38 am

The tragedy of such behavior in the past needs to be addressed in a forum of how to deal with such accusations (true or false) as soon as accusations are made. I think they ought to be taken seriously and investigated thoroughly. Investigate the accused and the accuser. I say both because if a thorough investigation is not done on both ends, there could be false accusations made just to rid the political scene of those hated.

I watched the Hannity interview of RM and, for me, he came off guilty. That is simply my opinion based on the responses he gave to the questions asked.

I would like to see a fair and just process to deal with these things until they have been fully dealt with.

After the statues of limitations has passed, all one can do is ruin a career of others and for some that is enough of a price to pay - then for others, maybe not.
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Re: Fox buddy Killian and Roy Moore

Postby Haruo » Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:57 am

Moore would rather commit spiritual suicide than political suicide. But for those who think Trump was sent by God to help save us, the two are synonymous. To lose the Senate majority would be eternal bankruptcy. I am more concerned, though, about Kayla. Maybe she is as fundamentally screwed up to begin with as Roy is, but maybe not, and if not, these must be horribly painfully and frightening days.
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Re: Fox buddy Killian and Roy Moore

Postby Haruo » Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:01 am

And then there is physical suicide...
"Until it's proven, pastors are holding their breath," Burdette said.
At this rate there are going to be a lot of Alabama pastors asphyxiating themselves.
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Re: Fox buddy Killian and Roy Moore

Postby Rvaughn » Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:23 am

Jon Estes wrote:I watched the Hannity interview of RM and, for me, he came off guilty. That is simply my opinion based on the responses he gave to the questions asked.
I didn't see this, but heard it on the radio while traveling (assuming what was on the radio is the same?). His responses raised some red flags for me.

When I initially heard of the accusations on Roy Moore, I was skeptical. My first thought was that this guy has been in the public eye for years and no own has ever raised these issues, so why now? Why not before? Why not when he was running against Luther Strange? After thinking about it, I believe there are some reasons that answer "why now," so I move forward.

Initially, I had some questions about the accusers' stories. I guess it seemed odd to me that the girls who were of legal age was saying he was a gentleman, only kissed them, whatever, while only the girls that were underage were saying he assaulted them, touched them, etc. Why not all of them? Was this coordinated? But then there were a couple things in his interview responses that I felt could explain that also, so I move forward.

In the interview he said he didn't remember dating the two I refer to as "legal age" girls -- the ones who said he was a gentleman, only kissed them, etc. To me his answer sounded like "I would not normally have dated girls this age; I kind of remember these girls, but I don't remember dating them; But if they said I did, maybe I did." All of this sounded like a bunch of hooey to me. Unless he is senile, it seems to me he should be able to remember whether he as a 30-something year old man dated an 18 year old woman. That seems like something I would remember, either a definite yes or no. I guess I also thought it was odd to bring up Etowah being a dry county when asked about the alcohol. I was raised in a dry county, but people who wanted booze seemed to be able to get it.

That's just a few examples of my thought process on what I have heard/read. There were no witnesses, so only God, the accused and the accusers know the truth. The rest of us will have to be satisfied with our opinions.
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Re: Fox buddy Killian and Roy Moore

Postby Sandy » Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:33 pm

Just a couple of notes--
There is no statute of limitations in Alabama for sexual abuse of a minor. There's a little lack of clarity as to whether that applies to 17 and 18 year olds, the way the law is written.

This isn't Moore's first rodeo when it comes to these kinds of accusations. This is the kind of thing that comes to the forefront when media attention increases, and with the scope of national media investigating who he is, they've bumped into people who never really been given a voice to talk before. That, and the fact that the man was in a powerful, judicial position to squash most of this kind of thing one way or another, including by wielding influence and power, contributed to burying this stuff, though it appears that people in Alabama have been talking about it for more than just the past few weeks. The victim's accounts are detailed, and times and places are corroborated by others.

It probably wasn't a good idea for Moore to talk to Sean Hannity. Even though his interview was mostly slow pitch softball, Moore didn't come off confident in his innocence or sound truthful. This is a tough situation, in a country where theoretically, you are innocent until proven guilty, at least from a legal perspective. Part of the reason reporters and journalists were digging so deep is that there are a lot of disturbing things about the guy that don't have to do with sexual assault of a teenaged girl. His ties and involvement in white supremacist groups, white nationalists and neo-confederates, and other right wing extremism are concerning, and in the course of looking at his past, they bumped into this.

This, however, is politics. You know there's going to be a storm when you've hung your hat on an extremist right wing populist social platform that appeals to right wing Christian groups, and there's a moral issue like this that comes up. When you've been a caustic critic of the Clintons, including Bill on this very kind of thing, and of the debunked "birther" nonsense, you'd better be next to perfect in this regard yourself, or you better be ready to weather the firestorm. I don't think this guy is.

So, in the most unlikely of places, the Democrats will gain a senate seat.
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Re: Fox buddy Killian and Roy Moore

Postby Haruo » Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:59 pm

Voting in Alabama began on Oct. 18, which increases Moore's chances of pulling it off. Then it will be up to the Senate to decide whether to defrock a sitting Senator for the first time since the Civil War era. And most Republican senators have come out so determinedly against Moore that to turn in his favor at that point would probably clinch the midterm Democratic landslide I'm rather hopeful of.
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Re: Fox buddy Killian and Roy Moore

Postby KeithE » Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:50 am

William Thornton wrote:Quote from John Killian, former Alabama Baptist Conv president and pal of Fox.

He has denied it and I take him at his word," said the Rev. John Killian, director of the Fayette County Baptist Association, who hosted Moore speaking twice when he was pastor of Maytown Baptist Church. "I believe him. That's not the way he's lived his life for the last 25 years. It's been reputable and respectable. He's a godly man, a brilliant man. I know Roy Moore. He has a great relationship with (his wife) Kayla. That's not the guy that's (being portrayed) out there now. I believe he's a good man. I don't believe the allegations have been proven. When a brother in Christ speaks, you give him the benefit of the doubt."


Fox, your buddy needs to get his mind right. Perhaps you can help.

This call for proof is a dodge. What would prove any one of the allegations besides a confession by the alleged perp? There's no witnesses, no security cam footage or the like.What we have are multiple accusers and numerous people who were aware that Moore liked teenaged girls when he was in his early 30s. Places and dates match.

I'm with Killian in his comment that this isn't the Roy Moore of the past 25 years, loving husband, and all that. But on giving benefit of the doubt, there's not much doubt left to give. I would be with anyone who maintains that christians can repent, change, and grow in grace and ought not to be judged by their behavior of 40 years ago. But Moore, so far as I'm aware, have never said his behavior in the past was sinful. It would be political suicide to admit to any of the accusations at this stage.

If you want to see a display of the moral bankruptcy of Alabama Baptists, here is the place.

If the church lives by politics...it dies by politics. I have never had much appreciation for RM but am saddened by what I see and hear from my Alabama Baptist colleagues.

I'm sympathetic and ready to accept that the Moore in his 30’s is not the Moore in his 40s/50s/60s/70s. I would not disqualify anyone as a political candidate for past sexual acts or even past criminal acts (sexual or otherwise) from several decades ago. People change. What matters to me is their current character and political stances.

But Moore’s (1) acts as a Judge (twice removed due to his religious grandstanding, writing dissenting opinions on 13 of 16 sexual harassments that favor those accused/found guilty), his (2) recent misuse of charitable funds, (3) his lack of repentance for his misbehaviors in his 30s, and (4) his extreme political views (same-sex sex should be criminally illegal, all Muslims should be kept out of our country, his leading role in the birther movement, claiming Obama was a Muslim, certain parts of America are under sharia law, 9/11 was God’s punishment for Americans godlessness, Keith Ellison a Muslim should not be allowed in Congress, and his obvious religious demagoguery,...) disqualify him as far as I’m concerned.
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Re: Fox buddy Killian and Roy Moore

Postby William Thornton » Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:01 am

The denial of past acts, obvious lack of repentance, makes him break the 9th commandment. He made a living on the Ten Commandments and in churches.
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Re: Fox buddy Killian and Roy Moore

Postby KeithE » Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:45 am

William Thornton wrote:The denial of past acts, obvious lack of repentance, makes him break the 9th commandment. He made a living on the Ten Commandments and in churches.

Another good point.
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To my knowledge

Postby Stephen Fox » Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:56 pm

Killian has never attended any of Balmer's lectures at Samford over the past 17 years nor has he read Balmer's bio of President Ccarter. Killian among his many firneds hasn authentic friendship with Judson President David Potts whose Father Earl publicly made a profession of faithful allegiance to the Bama CBF as as soon as he left Ex Dir of the Alsbom, the position rick lance now holds.

Time for a big pow wow in Montgomery with a gut wrenching conversation framed in Balmer's magnificent piece in the Wash Post Sunday.

I enjoy breaking bread with both Killian and Balmer. Right now I'm with Balmer, Roy Moore is a "con artist"!
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Killian speaks for one group of Bama Clergy

Postby Stephen Fox » Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:20 pm

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Here is how I really feel about Nick Saban and Rick Lance

Postby Stephen Fox » Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:06 pm

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Cuomo and Breitbart re Roy and Ringo

Postby Stephen Fox » Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:36 pm

Anybody see it this morning on CNN New Day? Must see TV. Transcript should google
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Re: Fox buddy Killian and Roy Moore

Postby Sandy » Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:51 pm

Stephen Fox wrote:Tide Can't roll unless we stock up on a better brand of authentic Christian integrity.


I read the blog, tried to follow through all of the names and figure out the conclusion. Stephen can come up with some good one liners on occasion, however, and this is the best from his piece. It makes the point.

Here's Russell Moore's position
https://pjmedia.com/faith/baptist-leade ... -idolatry/

Several board members here are critical of Russell Moore on principle, based on their perspective and his during the SBC controversy. I wonder if his critics ever thought that he would be labelled a "leftist"?

http://capstonereport.com/2017/11/09/le ... ore/31795/

You can set personal feelings about Russ Moore aside on this one. That Capstone article proves that he got this right.

Stephen, you really may have something here. The consequences for the religious right, and because of their prominence in Alabama, the SBC, of the election of Roy Moore will be devastating.
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Re: Fox buddy Killian and Roy Moore

Postby Haruo » Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:38 pm

I've never run into the Capstone Report before. I gather it's an ultraright Southern Baptist blog from Alabama?
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Re: Fox buddy Killian and Roy Moore

Postby Rvaughn » Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:53 pm

Haruo wrote:I've never run into the Capstone Report before. I gather it's an ultraright Southern Baptist blog from Alabama?
Neither have I. Perhaps Stephen can fill us in.

I looked around on the site a bit, and you couldn't tell that from their "About" page:
The Capstone Report began as a commentary on Alabama football in October 2006. Since then, the website has grown to include commentary, news, links to major breaking news, updates on recruiting and discussion about all University of Alabama athletics. Since its beginning, the website has served over 500,000 page views.

The Capstone Report is published by Capstone Report Publishing, Hueytown, Alabama 35023. The editorial team is composed of professional journalists and passionate amateurs including award winning editors, writers and photographers. Content on the site is generated by our writers or published from wire services including AP, Reuters, AFP, and other partners.

Despite the "focus" on football, the subtitle is "Commentary on Alabama Football, Politics & Religion." Based on the sheer number of SBC-related items on the first page, it seems like the proper conclusion that folks behind the site are Southern Baptist. The editor's name is Alan Atchison. I found an online reference to "Southern Baptist blogger Alan Atchison of Chelsea, Ala" -- my guess is that is the same person, but I stand to be corrected.
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Re: Fox buddy Killian and Roy Moore

Postby Haruo » Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:59 pm

This blurb on the main page kind of threw me for a minute, till I realized there's a paragraph break where I put the little ^v; the first part is the headline, the rest is the beginning of the article. Image
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Re: Fox buddy Killian and Roy Moore

Postby Rvaughn » Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:52 pm

I'm not sure just how things work in Alabama, with someone able to get in a race this close to election day (maybe Keith or Stephen can explain it to us), but according to the article linked below "Retired Marine Col. Lee Busby...launched his eleventh-hour campaign hoping to capitalize on voters’ dissatisfaction with the choices on the ballot."

Meet the Marine colonel who's looking to turn Alabama Senate race on its head: 'This is now a three-way gunfight'
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Re: Fox buddy Killian and Roy Moore

Postby Haruo » Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:43 am

My understanding is he's running as a write-in, which is something you could do right up till the polls close. I think it's unlikely he could win, and the most likely effect is to hurt Moore more than the Democrat, but we'll see. He might win if Moore would withdraw and throw his support to him, but I don't think that's likely. We'll see. We'll see.
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Re: Fox buddy Killian and Roy Moore

Postby Sandy » Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:05 am

I posted the reference to the Capstone Report because it popped up and the tag line about Leftist Russell Moore caught my eye. After reading through the post, it is clear to see that this is nothing but a blogger rant. It has no substance, cites no corroboration or facts, and the commentary on Russ Moore's quotations has nothing at all to do with what he actually said.

The clincher, though, is the piece that proclaims him a hater of football. :lol: That confirms the substance of this particular blog.

So the day has come, as many, many people said that it would, when a political agenda has become more important than character in a candidate for office. In its exhuberant support for what it claims to be a moral agenda, the religious right has already endorsed policies and platforms that are diametrically opposed to the teaching of scripture, and which mock Jesus. I've seen and heard many discussions by people claiming to be good, conservative, right wing, born again believers in Christ that do everything from defending the misunderstood Pharisees to redefining what Jesus meant by "enemies" when he commanded us to love them.

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Re: Fox buddy Killian and Roy Moore

Postby Rvaughn » Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:13 am

Haruo wrote:My understanding is he's running as a write-in, which is something you could do right up till the polls close. I think it's unlikely he could win, and the most likely effect is to hurt Moore more than the Democrat, but we'll see. He might win if Moore would withdraw and throw his support to him, but I don't think that's likely. We'll see. We'll see.
Interesting. According to Ballotpedia.org (not sure how trustworthy that is) "In Alabama, there are no special requirements that write-in presidential candidates must meet in order to have their votes tallied." I'm assuming what is true of presidential candidates would also be true of Senate candidates.

Very different here in Texas:" In order to become a write-in candidate in the general election, file a Declaration of Write-in Candidacy with the Secretary of State or your county judge..." and it must be done in a particular time frame related to the election.

My guess is that Busby's candidacy would help Jones and hurt Moore, but who knows! He might be pretty much negligible in the whole race.
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Re: Fox buddy Killian and Roy Moore

Postby Sandy » Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:31 am

Haruo wrote:My understanding is he's running as a write-in, which is something you could do right up till the polls close. I think it's unlikely he could win, and the most likely effect is to hurt Moore more than the Democrat, but we'll see. He might win if Moore would withdraw and throw his support to him, but I don't think that's likely. We'll see. We'll see.


The polling data is all over the place, but the composites in 538 don't reflect the announcement of the write in, and give Jones a 47 to 43 lead. The surprise in this group is Fox News, which gives Jones an 8 point lead that has held steady, and an average increase to the positive of 9%, which is quite a lot, considering where he started. The Gallup daily tracker, to which you have to subscribe, isn't included here, but gives Jones a 5% lead. It will probably take a week for polls to reflect the entry of a write-in. Those are always interesting, because they require correct spelling.
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Re: Fox buddy Killian and Roy Moore

Postby Rvaughn » Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:52 am

The Change Research Poll, referenced at 538, had flipped for Jones, but now has flipped back to Moore:
https://medium.com/@ChngRsrch/jones-holds-3-point-lead-in-alabama-following-7-point-shift-since-sunday-c6db133e4522
https://medium.com/@ChngRsrch/moore-opens-up-49-44-lead-in-alabama-just-9-of-trump-voters-believe-allegations-against-moore-6d74baa84a68
What has changed? The largest difference is turnout: many Republicans who ten days ago said they might not vote, now say they plan to show up on Election Day and vote for Moore.
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