Best I've Seen on the NFL Protest issue....

The place to discuss politics and policy issues that are not directly related to matters of faith.

Moderator: KeithE

Re: Best I've Seen on the NFL Protest issue....

Postby Sandy » Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:32 pm

JE Pettibone wrote:
Sandy wrote:
JE Pettibone wrote:Ed: Sandy where are you getting your ticket price info? Yea I know there are Scalpers yet the majority of fans in the stands paid far less than your claim. The price of tickets for that game ranged from $48.00 to $96.00 as of yesterday, from an on line re-seller.


I'm speaking of the premium seats and season ticket licenses. Of course, not everyone gets the premium seats to pay the higher price, but across the board, college football tickets vary according to demand. I was at the WVU-TTU game yesterday, and the seats on the mezzanine, in the boxes between the levels of the stadium, go for $150. A space in the blue lot outside the stadium where the tailgaters hang out is $1,500 per game, $4,000 if you haul in an RV. Across the board in college football, the fan base is overwhelmingly white, much more so than the population at large. This is a nit picky diversion, though, of the type you are noted for. It's a minor detail that doesn't affect the point that was made in any way.


Ed: Sandy you prices on RV Parking at the West Va Stadium are also grossly inflated.

" single Game RV Lots Parking Times and Cost:

Black RV parking (Coliseum Lot) – Friday 8 a.m. - $80 per game
Light Blue Auxiliary Parking (Don Nehlen Drive) – Friday 12 p.m. (noon) - $350 per game

RVs must be clear from the lots operated by West Virginia University Department of Intercollegiate Athletics by 12 p.m. (noon) the day following the game (excluding weeknight games). For more information on RV parking please contact the Director of Gameday Parking at 304-293-5649.
information."

What you call my nit pickiness is generally an attempt at exposing your use of hyperbole, in an attempt to make what I see as an invalid point more impressive.


That's just RV parking, that's not for the tailgating lot. Those are not purchased on a per-game basis, they are leased for the season. I've been going to WVU football games on and off for 30 years, and I've got family who tailgate every home game. When was the last time you parked your RV in the tailgate lot at WVU on game day?

The point was made, it was valid, you clearly got it and now you're just doing your usual niggling and nitpicking. Even if it's the discount lot in Oxford, Mississippi, the point is that there are plenty of white folks who are going to pay money to watch African American athletes play ball, and protect them from any kind of consequence if they happen to get on the wrong side of the law (see Jameis Winston and Florida State to see the lengths that white coaches and athletic directors will go to protect a player) so this little flap over a respectful, legitimate protest ain't a gonna put no dent in the NFL. The college experience helped these guys get to a platform where a protest will make a difference, and it has, to their favor. They've found a place from which they can do some good, and most of them are pointing to their Christian faith as a motivating factor in doing it. They've discovered they have power, and they are using it, and there are some racist bigots who are jiggling with rage because there's not thing one they can do about it.
Sandy
Sandy
 
Posts: 8130
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 5:10 pm
Location: Rural Western Pennsylvania

Re: Best I've Seen on the NFL Protest issue....

Postby KeithE » Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:17 am

Public arguments are often framed by the two sides in different manners. To Kaepernick and other NFLfers, the issue is about police brutality/even killings of blacks; to Trump and his followers it is about respect for the flag, the national anthem, and the military. Trump is playing the “nationalism” card and calling on his base and whoever will listen to put down (even have fired) Kaepernick and other NFLers (abuse of power in my view). And here is the point - he never acknowledges Kaerpernick's issue and no movement towards rectification of the police brutality issue is being considered to my knowledge.

Kaepernick did change from sitting to kneeling during the anthem recognizing the “ultimate price” of those who died in service of their country -acknowledging to the degree he could, the other side's point.

This will end in a new equilibrium with the country more divided and police brutality vs blacks will be unchanged at best. I have little hope that enough Americans will seek improvements in the police’s brutal treatments of blacks because of these protests. But that does not mean they should not happen.
Informed by Data.
Driven by the SPIRIT and JESUS’s Example.
Promoting the Kingdom of GOD on Earth.
http://www.weatherly.org/discoverycenter
User avatar
KeithE
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8357
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 9:02 pm
Location: Huntsville, AL

Re: Best I've Seen on the NFL Protest issue....

Postby Sandy » Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:17 pm

KeithE wrote:This will end in a new equilibrium with the country more divided and police brutality vs blacks will be unchanged at best. I have little hope that enough Americans will seek improvements in the police’s brutal treatments of blacks because of these protests. But that does not mean they should not happen.


That's kind of a bleak picture, though it does seem like the whole issue of racism goes through cycles. The problem, though, is that there's a time limit on endurance of oppression. And that gets into a really deep discussion of all kinds of philosophical perspectives, as to whether there is even a resolution for these kinds of problems. At the heart of it all, as this author suggests in the Baptist Standard is jealousy that is human nature arising as the result of resentment of the success of the male gender in particular of a race of people once enslaved.

Perhaps Alexis de Tocqueville would have a more optimistic view of America's ability to resolve this, too, though it may likely be at least as difficult as the other steps taken in the civil rights movement. Tocqueville on America After 1840: Letterrs and Other Writings might have some foresight and prophetic wisdom on this topic. He saw slavery as one of the greatest hinderances to American progress, and saw the potential pitfalls and problems even as he envisioned the end of institutional slavery in America. Taken into context of the time it was written, it is really extremely insightful and foward thinking compared to its day on the ability of people here to overcome the barriers that were such major hindrances to European development.

The American identity of African Americans runs equally as deep as that of any group of Caucasians who came here. Until we understand that completely, this problem won't go away.
Sandy
Sandy
 
Posts: 8130
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 5:10 pm
Location: Rural Western Pennsylvania

Re: Best I've Seen on the NFL Protest issue....

Postby Jim » Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:16 am

Sandy wrote:

The American identity of African Americans runs equally as deep as that of any group of Caucasians who came here. Until we understand that completely, this problem won't go away.

Exactly wrong. Until they (African-Americans) understand that completely, this problem won't go away.
Jim
 
Posts: 3595
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2006 3:44 pm
Location: Lexington, Ky.

Re: Best I've Seen on the NFL Protest issue....

Postby Haruo » Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:22 pm

Bound and determined to place blame on The Other, eh, Jim?
Haruo (呂須•春男) = ᎭᎷᎣ = Leland Bryant Ross
Repeal the language taxLearn and use Esperanto
Fremont Baptist ChurchMy hymnblog
User avatar
Haruo
Site Admin
 
Posts: 11624
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2004 8:21 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Best I've Seen on the NFL Protest issue....

Postby Jim » Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:01 pm

Haruo wrote:Bound and determined to place blame on The Other, eh, Jim?

It's been drilled into blacks from their births that they are not part of the U.S., but victims only. Until they understand that they are part of the country and its heritage, they will continue on the road to permanent underclass. I placed no BLAME anywhere, merely corrected a patently false statement.
Jim
 
Posts: 3595
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2006 3:44 pm
Location: Lexington, Ky.

Re: Best I've Seen on the NFL Protest issue....

Postby Haruo » Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:33 pm

It's been drilled into a lot of whites from an early age that they are better than blacks. Not all. And not all blacks have a victim sense of self, and the ones who acquire it don't all do the same thing with it. Most of the blacks I know (including many of the ones who came here as immigrants or refugees) consider themselves as American as I am, far as I can tell.

Which doesn't mean they don't suffer discrimination, or that they are unaware of it.
Haruo (呂須•春男) = ᎭᎷᎣ = Leland Bryant Ross
Repeal the language taxLearn and use Esperanto
Fremont Baptist ChurchMy hymnblog
User avatar
Haruo
Site Admin
 
Posts: 11624
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2004 8:21 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Best I've Seen on the NFL Protest issue....

Postby Sandy » Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:00 pm

Jim wrote:
Haruo wrote:Bound and determined to place blame on The Other, eh, Jim?

It's been drilled into blacks from their births that they are not part of the U.S., but victims only. Until they understand that they are part of the country and its heritage, they will continue on the road to permanent underclass. I placed no BLAME anywhere, merely corrected a patently false statement.


You're black, then? Otherwise, you have absolutely no frame of reference for what is an absolutely false and ignorant statement.
Sandy
Sandy
 
Posts: 8130
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 5:10 pm
Location: Rural Western Pennsylvania

Re: Best I've Seen on the NFL Protest issue....

Postby Jim » Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:20 pm

Haruo wrote:It's been drilled into a lot of whites from an early age that they are better than blacks. Not all. And not all blacks have a victim sense of self, and the ones who acquire it don't all do the same thing with it. Most of the blacks I know (including many of the ones who came here as immigrants or refugees) consider themselves as American as I am, far as I can tell.

Which doesn't mean they don't suffer discrimination, or that they are unaware of it.

No argument with any of that. I was raised in, and still live in, Kentucky so I know all about how whites were raised regarding both loyalty to the nation and racial discrimination, both alive and well throughout the nation and this forum, though not all admit it.
Jim
 
Posts: 3595
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2006 3:44 pm
Location: Lexington, Ky.

Re: Best I've Seen on the NFL Protest issue....

Postby Jim » Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:30 pm

Sandy wrote:
Jim wrote:
Haruo wrote:Bound and determined to place blame on The Other, eh, Jim?

It's been drilled into blacks from their births that they are not part of the U.S., but victims only. Until they understand that they are part of the country and its heritage, they will continue on the road to permanent underclass. I placed no BLAME anywhere, merely corrected a patently false statement.


You're black, then? Otherwise, you have absolutely no frame of reference for what is an absolutely false and ignorant statement.

I'm still laughing. What is your frame of reference for an absolutely false and ignorant statement? Red, yellow, black, or white? Mulatto or Creole? Transgender or pit bull? Yellow-dog democrat or Hillary sycophant (getting warm, I'll bet)? Hard-rock or ragtime? Baptist or Christian? Muslim or serial-killer...or both? Hilarious!!!
Jim
 
Posts: 3595
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2006 3:44 pm
Location: Lexington, Ky.

Re: Best I've Seen on the NFL Protest issue....

Postby Sandy » Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:08 pm

What's hilarious is someone like you even pretending that you know what has been "drilled into blacks since birth."

Well, that answers the question about your frame of reference.
Sandy
Sandy
 
Posts: 8130
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 5:10 pm
Location: Rural Western Pennsylvania

Previous

Return to Politics and Public Policy Issues

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 59 guests