Sexual Abuse Allegations

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Re: Sexual Abuse Allegations

Postby Sandy » Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:56 am

William Thornton wrote:
Sandy wrote:
William Thornton wrote:Well, OK, guess we're not over it.


Same attempt at diversion, over and over and over and over.......

You don't get it. Stop trying.


Well, Timothy indicated he (and the country) weren't over it....suppose it was a clever diversion for me to agree with him.


Timothy just stated facts. If that's "not over it" then we need a whole lot more of not getting over it, and a whole lot less of diversion and avoidance. Better to not be over it and see the truth than to be blind and in denial of reality.
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Re: Sexual Abuse Allegations

Postby William Thornton » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:48 am

So...you're not over it?
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Re: Sexual Abuse Allegations

Postby KeithE » Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:04 am

I certainly am not accepting that Trump has been good for America. And am fully engaged in dump Trump movements.

If that is what you mean by 'not being over it' then count me in.
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Re: Sexual Abuse Allegations

Postby Tim Bonney » Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:34 am

William Thornton wrote:Well, Timothy indicated he (and the country) weren't over it....suppose it was a clever diversion for me to agree with him.


LOL. It always worries me when you agree with me William. :wink:

What's surprising to me is that you seem to think we should be over it. So let me be more specific as to what is different here than previous GOP administrations.

The President and the GOP have so messed up the healthcare situation that part of my own family and some of my church staff are going to have trouble getting healthcare. The GOP has so freaked out insurance companies that there is only one insurance company in Iowa on the exchange now and they are talking of pulling out. So, Trump and the GOP may mean no healthcare for people I know.

I know at least one American citizens living in South Korea, my daughter's best friend. If Trump pushing North Korea into a war I know at least one person who is close to my family that will be in danger because of Trump's tweeting.

I have colleagues who have been threatened with racial violence since Trump said that those Nazis in Charlottesville included some good people. And I've seen an uptick of racist behavior since he started talking about "bad hombres."

I have friends and colleagues in Puerto Rico who are not getting the same commitment from the US government for aid that Texas and Florida got because Trump doesn't understand that these folks are US citizens and deserve our help. These people are getting treated poorly because they are brown skinned rather than lilly white.

So yes, since family, friends and colleagues of mine are getting harmed by his Presidency, I'm not over and I'm not going to get over it until this guy is out of office.

It is easy to talk about politics, economics, and partisanship. But I know people who are going to suffer who are close to me because this bozo is President.

Right now I'd take any sane member of the GOP as President over Trump. This isn't about GOP or DNC. If someone could guarantee that GW Bush could step in tomorrow and take Trump's place, I'd shout Praise the Lord!
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Re: Sexual Abuse Allegations

Postby William Thornton » Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:00 pm

I don't share your apocalyptic views. Obamacare was a mess from the beginning, starting with the totally partisan ramrod job by the dems.
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Re: Sexual Abuse Allegations

Postby KeithE » Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:13 pm

William Thornton wrote:I don't share your apocalyptic views. Obamacare was a mess from the beginning, starting with the totally partisan ramrod job by the dems.

Do you care to give any details (comprehensive ones not just anecdotal please) as to why you believe ObamaCare was a mess from the beginning (that is heath care in the US declined in cost, quantity of coverage, and/or quality since the days before before ObamaCare)? Just repeating campaign lines does not hack it. Yes the ACA of 2010 was a Dem-led vote (no Rep voted yes, 34 Dems voted no), but certainly we can assess progress (or lack thereof) w/o those party blinders, as of through 2016 (before the intentional sabotage that is going on this year- website going down for during signup period, advertising being pulled, - read about these and more at Trump's open sabotage of Obamacare).

Affordable Care Act has improved access to health care, but disparities persist written Aug 2016.
Summary:
The Affordable Care Act has substantially decreased the number of uninsured Americans and improved access to health care, though insurance affordability and disparities by geography, race/ethnicity, and income persist. These are some of the findings revealed in nearly 100 studies, dating back to 2010, pertaining to the ACA in a new research paper.


10 Important Ways Obamacare Has Helped The Average American written Jan 7, 2017.

1. Passage Of The ACA Has Resulted In The Lowest Uninsured Rate In Recent History
2. The ACA Medicaid Expansion Provided Health Care Access For Millions Of The Most Vulnerable Americans
3. The ACA Tangibly Improved Women’s Health Care Coverage
4. The ACA Helped America Take Huge Steps Toward LGBTQ Equality
5. Contrary To Popular Belief, The ACA Extended The Solvency Of Medicare By Over 10 Years
6. The ACA Reduced The Budget Deficit, Reined In Medical Costs, And Reduced Economic Inequality
7. The ACA Improved Health Care Access For Minority Communities
8. The ACA Banned Discrimination Against Those With Pre-Existing Conditions
9. The ACA Provided Crucial Insurance To Young Adults
10. The ACA Resulted In The Biggest Expansion Of Mental Health Care Services In Decades
details in the article.

Your turn, William. I know you can find some scathing reviews out there.
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Re: Sexual Abuse Allegations

Postby Tim Bonney » Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:13 pm

William Thornton wrote:I don't share your apocalyptic views. Obamacare was a mess from the beginning, starting with the totally partisan ramrod job by the dems.


It was a mess, agreed. But it was a mostly working mess. Now with Trump signing executive orders that undermine it, I have family members who very well may not be covered at all, or with certain health conditions. Trump only wants to undue whatever Obama did and doesn't give a d*mn who it hurts in the process. He doesn't care what happens to his party. He just doesn't care. That is the bottom line.

And by the way, I'm not being apocalyptic. I'm telling you about people I know who have a very high chance of not having insurance in the future because of the President's actions. A lot of people can be sick, hungry, hurting and poor without an apocalypse. Trump is adding to their numbers.
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Re: Sexual Abuse Allegations

Postby William Thornton » Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:18 pm

The argument seems to be, since we have it, it must be fixed...gazillions notwithstanding. The payments were not approved by congress, or there is dispute.

Scrap it.
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Re: Sexual Abuse Allegations

Postby KeithE » Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:25 pm

William Thornton wrote:The argument seems to be, since we have it, it must be fixed...gazillions notwithstanding. The payments were not approved by congress, or there is dispute.

Scrap it.

Justify that “gazillions” William. You are just throwing out trash.
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Re: Sexual Abuse Allegations

Postby Sandy » Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:32 pm

Not just ordinary trash. Right wing extremist media propaganda trash. The lines don't match reality. But William's not interested in facts in these kinds of discussions.
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Re: Sexual Abuse Allegations

Postby KeithE » Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:36 pm

Sandy wrote:Not just ordinary trash. Right wing extremist media propaganda trash. The lines don't match reality. But William's not interested in facts in these kinds of discussions.

Painfully obvious
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Re: Sexual Abuse Allegations

Postby William Thornton » Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:35 am

Ihatetrump...etc...yawn

Gazillions in payments to Big Ins
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Re: Sexual Abuse Allegations

Postby Sandy » Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:56 am

William Thornton wrote:Ihatetrump...etc...yawn

Gazillions in payments to Big Ins


...zzzz....zzzz.....zzzzz.....zzzz
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Re: Sexual Abuse Allegations

Postby Dave Roberts » Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:59 am

William Thornton wrote:Ihatetrump...etc...yawn

Gazillions in payments to Big Ins


Of course, there is only one reason those payments existed. They were put in the bill to placate the GOP and big insurance. The GOP hopes we all don't remember.
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Re: Sexual Abuse Allegations

Postby William Thornton » Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:13 pm

Dave Roberts wrote:
William Thornton wrote:Ihatetrump...etc...yawn

Gazillions in payments to Big Ins


Of course, there is only one reason those payments existed. They were put in the bill to placate the GOP and big insurance. The GOP hopes we all don't remember.


...so, no complaints when trump stops them?

It's more complicated than that. I'm inclined to think that dems knew it would fail but didn't think it would be politically possible for it to be undone. Maybe not. Trump's election didn't figure into anyone's calculations.

I get that people want free or practically free healthcare. I also get that many think gummit ought to provide it for free. Nothing about it is free to anyone.
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I think the women have the high ground here

Postby Stephen Fox » Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:52 pm

Overwhelmingly the weight of this conversation is in their court; still women played along with the playboy culture, get seeixifed weekly on college campuses to do the sorority =frat dance for status purposes. Jesus and the WMU have always shown a better way as have the \ga's but lot of good \Baptist girls and Methodist girls play the game. There has always been a fire in the loins of both sexes, \tom \wolfe novel on Duke, a historically Methodist school, the walk of shame, slut shaming told a strong truth about this morass.

Everybody wants to talk about Bill Clinton, but I haven't seen Jeffress and \falwell Jr jump in on the masturbating Killing Jeesus Bill Oreilly, nor the man who not only sodomized women but also the soul of America, Roger Ailes.

So if its time to call \weintein a Spade, lets call all the spades, Flush the deck or whatever appropriate metaphor Willie \tee learned at UGA.

Just a few random thoughts begging for focus.

VBTW, google the Maurenn |Dowd opinion piece of 2010 on Onan and Jimmy Carter. Sources says Dowd was back in Sunday school in Plains couple weeks ago. Ther morning service was on Boaz, but she skipped church.
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Thornton and health care

Postby Stephen Fox » Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:53 pm

Obviously he isn't keeping up with the NPR series anchored in the substantive research and insight of the Kaiser foundation into America's health care morass!
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Re: Sexual Abuse Allegations

Postby Sandy » Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:22 pm

William Thornton wrote:I get that people want free or practically free healthcare. I also get that many think gummit ought to provide it for free. Nothing about it is free to anyone.


That's a misrepresentation of it. Spreading the cost out by making accesss to coverage universal, removing the profit margin and lowering the cost by having the government administer the program (a medicare type deduction), and regulate the expenses of care in the same way that insurance negotiates costs now is the kind of thing that the ACA was initially aiming at. Even Mexico has been able to develop something that works, within the context of the culture and ability of the government to fund it.
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Re: Sexual Abuse Allegations

Postby Haruo » Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:46 pm

In the south do you all use "to go south" in the sense I'm used to hearing it, i.e. "to deteriorate"? In any case I think what people generally would like to see is a situation where when their health goes south their individual financial well-being and that of their immediate family members doesn't go south with it, and they don't reach a point where the cost of living is simply not affordable, so dying is the best out. Most of the industrialized world and much of the non-industrialized world manages this better than we do. Trump supporters by and large don't realize this.
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Re: Sexual Abuse Allegations

Postby Haruo » Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:47 pm

I'm interested to hear how it's done in the Emirates.
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Re: Sexual Abuse Allegations

Postby KeithE » Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:10 am

Haruo wrote:In the south do you all use "to go south" in the sense I'm used to hearing it, i.e. "to deteriorate"? In any case I think what people generally would like to see is a situation where when their health goes south their individual financial well-being and that of their immediate family members doesn't go south with it, and they don't reach a point where the cost of living is simply not affordable, so dying is the best out. Most of the industrialized world and much of the non-industrialized world manages this better than we do. Trump supporters by and large don't realize this.

Yes I’ve head and used “go south” as meaning get worse. But it is “ya’ll” not “ you all”.

And yes Trump supporters as well as establishment Republicans deny the extreme “southness” of the American health care system(s).
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Re: Sexual Abuse Allegations

Postby Jim » Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:03 pm

Haruo wrote:In the south do you all use "to go south" in the sense I'm used to hearing it, i.e. "to deteriorate"? In any case I think what people generally would like to see is a situation where when their health goes south their individual financial well-being and that of their immediate family members doesn't go south with it, and they don't reach a point where the cost of living is simply not affordable, so dying is the best out. Most of the industrialized world and much of the non-industrialized world manages this better than we do. Trump supporters by and large don't realize this.

Manage what that the deplorables don't realize?
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Re: Sexual Abuse Allegations

Postby Jim » Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:27 pm

KeithE wrote:
William Thornton wrote:I don't share your apocalyptic views. Obamacare was a mess from the beginning, starting with the totally partisan ramrod job by the dems.

Do you care to give any details (comprehensive ones not just anecdotal please) as to why you believe ObamaCare was a mess from the beginning (that is heath care in the US declined in cost, quantity of coverage, and/or quality since the days before before ObamaCare)? Just repeating campaign lines does not hack it. Yes the ACA of 2010 was a Dem-led vote (no Rep voted yes, 34 Dems voted no), but certainly we can assess progress (or lack thereof) w/o those party blinders, as of through 2016 (before the intentional sabotage that is going on this year- website going down for during signup period, advertising being pulled, - read about these and more at Trump's open sabotage of Obamacare).

Affordable Care Act has improved access to health care, but disparities persist written Aug 2016.
Summary:
The Affordable Care Act has substantially decreased the number of uninsured Americans and improved access to health care, though insurance affordability and disparities by geography, race/ethnicity, and income persist. These are some of the findings revealed in nearly 100 studies, dating back to 2010, pertaining to the ACA in a new research paper.


10 Important Ways Obamacare Has Helped The Average American written Jan 7, 2017.

1. Passage Of The ACA Has Resulted In The Lowest Uninsured Rate In Recent History
2. The ACA Medicaid Expansion Provided Health Care Access For Millions Of The Most Vulnerable Americans
3. The ACA Tangibly Improved Women’s Health Care Coverage
4. The ACA Helped America Take Huge Steps Toward LGBTQ Equality
5. Contrary To Popular Belief, The ACA Extended The Solvency Of Medicare By Over 10 Years
6. The ACA Reduced The Budget Deficit, Reined In Medical Costs, And Reduced Economic Inequality
7. The ACA Improved Health Care Access For Minority Communities
8. The ACA Banned Discrimination Against Those With Pre-Existing Conditions
9. The ACA Provided Crucial Insurance To Young Adults
10. The ACA Resulted In The Biggest Expansion Of Mental Health Care Services In Decades
details in the article.

Your turn, William. I know you can find some scathing reviews out there.

No matter what light you use to shine on the ACA, it was doomed purposely from the beginning. It was designed to fail (as it is now doing) thus forcing total government control of every facet of health-care. MIT prof Gruber testified before Congress that he was paid well to engineer the act too obfuscated for not just the deplorables but for everyone, especially in Congress, to understand. Obama's non-promises were written into the act, whether or not he understood that, but the water hit the wheel when businesses were setting up for the employer-mandate requirement to be enforced by Obama with their nearly all part-time workers and the 29-hour work-week. This enforcement of his oath to uphold the laws would have sunk ACA almost spontaneously or, if not that, would have totally destroyed business-practices, not to mention hiking costs of everything. If Congress doesn't act, ACA will implode soon, with democrats completely owning the mess since no republican in Congress voted affirmatively. Just letting it die and starting all over will put the dems in an embarrassing bind no matter who owns the Congress when the ashes started piling.
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Re: Sexual Abuse Allegations

Postby Haruo » Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:34 pm

Jim wrote:
Haruo wrote:In the south do you all use "to go south" in the sense I'm used to hearing it, i.e. "to deteriorate"? In any case I think what people generally would like to see is a situation where when their health goes south their individual financial well-being and that of their immediate family members doesn't go south with it, and they don't reach a point where the cost of living is simply not affordable, so dying is the best out. Most of the industrialized world and much of the non-industrialized world manages this better than we do. Trump supporters by and large don't realize this.

Manage what that the deplorables don't realize?

Manage to make it better to be seriously ill in Canada or Japan than here.
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Re: Sexual Abuse Allegations

Postby Sandy » Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:37 pm

The Republicans and Trump already own the failure of the ACA. It was their doing. Most people see this for what it is. Apparently, enough Republicans up for re-election do too, because they are desperately trying to do something to save it before they have to get serious about their re-election campaign.
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